7 Ways To Shut Down A Speed Trap

Speed traps are often used by municipalities as a method of generating revenue to run the government. “Safety” is given as the excuse for running a speed trap, but the real reason boils down to money.

  • The police department wants more money for equipment and salaries.
  • The City wants more money to avoid raising taxes.
  • Local residents and businesses often go along with speed traps because they reduce local taxes, and besides, they’re usually not the drivers who get the tickets anyway.

A “win win” situation for everybody in town, but not for the poor saps that suffer fines, points and insurance surcharges in the name of “safety.” However, any person, if persistent enough, can take meaningful action to eliminate the classic speed trap. There are multiple approaches to bringing public and private wrath down upon the perpetrators of speed traps.

1) Appeal To Local Business Owners

With sufficient prodding local businesses can be effective in lobbying for the end of community speed traps. One way to prompt this kind of lobbying is to convince business owners that the local speed trap is costing them money, or is about to cost them money.

This can be done by sending letters to local businesses and the chamber of commerce stating that you and anyone you can convince accordingly, will not be shopping in that community until the use of speed traps is discontinued.

2) Get The Attention Of The Local Media

Letters should be sent to the local newspapers, radio and TV stations, and to the mayor or any other head of the government that sponsors the speed trap.

The combination of economic sanctions (loss of business) and embarrassment of local officials may generate pressure to eliminate the speed trap, or at least reduce its most abusive characteristics.

3) Purchase Small Advertisements In The Paper

If the media ignores the story, you can still get the word out in other ways. To add a little momentum to your efforts you may want to purchase small ads in surrounding community newspapers that identify the speed trap and demand that things change.

4) Find Other Speed Trap Victims To Join The Cause

Ask around the area and find other speed trap victims. The trap has taken money out of their pockets so it won’t be hard to convince them to join the effort. If you generate some additional interest and help, the media and local officials will start to take you more seriously.

5) Request A Traffic Engineering Study

If a local village or city is using a state or county highway as a speed trap you may be able to provoke the state or county officials sufficiently to have them force the end of the speed trap. For example, if the speed limit is severely under-posted you can request a copy of the traffic engineering study that sanctioned such a low speed limit.

You can use a “public information request” or “freedom of information request” to force the release of this study, if the public agency won’t willingly release it. More often than not, no such study exists.

There are exceptions, but all states require a traffic engineering study to support an unusual or abnormally low speed limit. Even if a traffic engineering study exists, it may not support the speed limit posted by the local unit of government.

6) Talk To Your Elected Officials


All elected officials give lip service to the belief that underhanded and exploitative speed enforcement should not be used as a means to extort money from honest responsible citizens. It’s fair game to ask them to put substance behind their words. You have every right to ask your state legislators to pass a law that will reduce, if not eliminate the abuses common to speed traps.

Here are some approaches you can suggest to your state senator or representative:

  • Require that any posted speed limit that differs from the standard speed limit for a given type of road or highway be supported by a legitimate traffic engineering study that determines the 85th percentile speed of free flowing unimpeded traffic.
  • Establish a limit on the percent of local revenues that any community can generate through traffic fines. Any local unit of government that is generating more than 10% to 20% of its total revenue from fines is abusing traffic enforcement for revenue enhancement purposes.
  • Require that a high percentage (75 %) of all traffic fines and related costs be transferred to an unrelated state fund, e.g. public education, emergency relief, or public library aids.
  • Prohibit the use of electronic speed measurement devices to enforce speed limits that have not been determined through the use of an official traffic engineering study.
  • Require specific and proper training for any person using electronic devices for speed enforcement purposes.
  • Provide that any motorist charged with a traffic violation has the automatic right for a change of venue to a court of record (from a local administrative or municipal court).
  • Prohibit the use of electronic speed measurement devices to clock vehicles within 100 yards of a speed limit sign that reduces the speed limit.

By giving your legislator concrete and realistic suggestions you will have made it difficult for him or her to just ignore your request. Getting a bill drafted and introduced is still a long way from getting it passed into law, but it sure is a good start in the right direction.

7) Challenge Your Speed Trap Ticket In Court

On a very personal and individual level there is yet another way to challenge and oppose speed traps.

If you’re caught in a speed trap, you need to challenge your speeding ticket in court.  Just paying the ticket to avoid the hassle will only perpetuate the system by giving the municipality exactly what it wants and expects: your money.  Challenge your ticket in court with the full knowledge that you may have to appeal your conviction to a higher, more legitimate court. This accomplishes a variety of objectives:

  1. You force the operators of the speed trap to take their time and money to prosecute you.
  2. If you are well prepared, a competent judge may decide to formally chastise the speed trap operators, especially if they have violated an existing state law.
  3. Finally, as a reward for your hard work, there’s a good chance the charges against you will be dismissed.

This article was adapted from information on the NMA’s speed trap registry website, www.speedtrap.org, a listing of speed traps submitted by drivers across the country.

Not an NMA Member yet?

Join today and get these great benefits!

Leave a Comment

1,620 Responses to “7 Ways To Shut Down A Speed Trap”

  1. jhughes says:

    Just like left wing politics, the people putting together this web page have little or no experience or knowledge in the positive effects of speed traps. Speaking with knowledge, experience and proof, I can tell you that speed kills and speed traps slow down those intended and unintended victims. I have seen it work and will continue to support any community that cares more about it citizens safety that some "poor sucker" who gets a speeding ticket. You people are not doing a community service here, you are instead hurting people, and a large number of them are innocent.

  2. Trapper says:

    This article is ludicrous. Especially Point number 7. Do you think the court gives a rats ass about the expense of bringing cops and prosecutors together to stand up to the traffic charges?? The cops in my city get paid 1.5 x salary to attend court!!! And guess who's paying? The "poor sap" driving like any idiot putting you and your families lives in danger!! IT'S YOUR TAX MONEY!!!

    Think about it! For the love of CHRIST! I gots my share of tickets through the years, was I speeding??? yep sure was. So what is a person with integrity, honesty, and a brain going to do???? PAY THE #@#%ing ticket!!! Rocket science.

  3. James Young says:

    To jhughes: OK, I'll bite. Show us your proof. Prove to us that speed traps are truly about something other than money. "Speed kills" is an absurdity proved false long ago. We have more drivers in more cars covering hundreds of millions more miles but the crash, injury and fatality rates just keep improving and have ever since we began keeping such statistics. Not even the vitriolic anti-speed NHTSA can prove that "speed kills." BTW, don't even bother with the puerile physics talking points.

  4. Trapper says:

    James I agree bud, speed don't kill, idiots do.
    Please though James, come up with a solution. Let's get our road deaths down next to nill…how do we do that? Accidents are actually motor vehicle collisions, not accidents. Would love to hear your input since you sound very well educated in this realm.

  5. Christensen says:

    Responsible Folks should take the time to train the new young drivers on the Do's and Don'ts. Bad driving habits need to be corrected, it save lives. For example…jack rabbit starts to the next traffic light, or tailgating.

    Road condition, traffic congestion and population plays a big role on how fast you should drive on any roadway, regardless of the speed limits. Common sense won't hurt either, however when you see speed limit signs (three or four) with limits decending within a few hundred feet, you could be a victim of a speed trap.

    "Speed does'nt kill, it's the sudden stop".

    Have a safe day, "be alert and don't get hurt".

  6. crzepilot says:

    If the government really cared about safety on the highways, why have I not been required to attend some sort of training in the last 15 years? Since I have been 16 I have no idea if laws have changed or if my driving abilities are at a high enough level

  7. Gideon says:

    anytime the police sworn to protect and to serve it's community, sit around only to catch someone generally going 5 miles an hour more than the posted limit (which most people have done who drive or ride), in this mans opinion, they are EXTRACTING money the same as someone who breaks someones legs if they don't pay up.

    I make a mistake and drive a few miles an hour more than the posted, yet I don't run red lights EVER, and I don't drive recklessly, I should NOT be forced to hand over my childrens food or clothing as a punishment.

    These extractors who cause hardships, can be lienient, but most are heartless.

    The laws were created by bureaucrates only to steel more money from the working people.. PERIOD, but they label it "LAW" and then screw the American people and brainwash the rest to think we did some terrible thing and we must pay for that sin.

    Yet, the minute the MONEY (the true reason for the ticket) is handed over, we are no longer GUILTY, but if we fail to pay that money, they will enforce even greater afflictions on the people.

    It's all about stealing from the honest person who will make mistakes, to empower the system more.

    See it for what it really is. Nothing more than a mob with a lisence to steal and inflict hardship.

    Now if you are out of control, let them chase your ass down and bust you.

  8. Ray Hand says:

    Within the last two years there was an article published in The Detroit Free Press stating that it is against Michigan State Law for a police Officer to "hide" in order to catch you speeding on radar. The officer MUST BE IN PLAIN SIGHT or the ticket,in court, would be ruled invalid. I am not "computer literate" enough to locate the article on the Internet, but maybe one of you reading this can find it. It only makes sense to me that it is the duty of Police Officers to PREVENT you from speeding, not "set you up" (as in "entrapment") so that their is a lesser chance of an accident happening. However, speeding tickets are BIG MONEY for cities so elected officials encourage Officers to hide in order to catch speeders. (I.E. – How many times have you traveled an expressway at night and come upon an Officer sitting in one of the "Turnaround for Emergency Vehicles Only" areas with all of his lights TURNED OFF so that you don't see him until he is now turning his lights on to pull you over and ticket you??) If the police were seriously concerned with stopping speeders, instead of hiding to give tickets (READ-MONEY), they would be out in the open at all times so that you don't speed in the first place!!!!! I am NOT herein advocating speeding. I am merely stating that it is the Police who are breaking the law by "hiding" and not doing their jobs of preventing you from speeding in the first place!!!! The only logical conclusion is that they do it for MONEY!! Did you know that in the City of Redford, Michigan, officers are paid one hour of overtime for every two tickets they issue?? Do you think those officers are going to be watching for crimes being committed, or are they going to be trying to give traffic tickets so they can get paid an extra hour of overtime without having to put in the extra hour of time?? O.K. – enough for now. Any comments?? – Ray

  9. Bill says:

    Well well, boys and girls.
    Law enforcement quotas must be met by police officers on traffic duty,and they are generally screened every month.
    Most traffic court magistrates or judges become part of the prosecution. Hence, what the policeman says is accepted as the absolute truth, and what the accused says is merely considered an attempt to get out of paying the fine.
    When a cop testifies about what his radar gun indicated is accepted by the court as irrefutable (like DNA)
    I was ab eighteen wheeller driver for years. Dribeng sleeper cab all across this country. Every moment of the truck speed and engine revolutions was charted. I was warned by oncoming other eighteen wheelers of the speed trap either by the hand signal or over the radio
    Of course I made sure this time my speed was less than legal, but I was pulled over numerous times and when I presented my recorded speed charts over the officers testimony I was still found guilty. I am not saying that all cops make perjured statements but they all know what they can get away with.

  10. future trapper says:

    I am tired of people complaining about so called speed traps. police are just doing their jobs . Its simple don't speed and won't get a ticket.

  11. chrissy says:

    Well, jhughes…if you ever come back to review your comments and what the rest of us have said. this is for you:

    My last and I think my only ticket I got was from a speed trap almost 20 years ago. I was going less than 10 mph over. I had just pulled ahead of a really smelly city truck, spewing poisonous fumes and pollution from its engine. I had just pulled into the left lane to pass the truck, after being stuck behind him at a red light.

    I was doing the correct speed, and he 'lasered' my car right at the line where the speed limit dropped like 10 miles an hour. so I wasn't going like 50 in a 25 mph area.

    I told the police officer that….he didn't care, he wanted me to just go really slow behind the truck…..hmmmm and then cause traffic issues going way under the speed limit…

    I had a sick child in my car, on the way to the hospital. The fumes made her sicker and me to get nausous.

    When I looked at the ticket, the officer had me listed as a man, I am a woman, and he wrote my car was a white 2 door and I was in a beige 4 door. When I contested this, the judge did not care that the ticket was not correctly written out. The judge didn't care that the city truck was spewing poison and pollution.

    The judge could care less…they still got their money. However the ticket was cut in half, I still lost points.

    So to me, our traps are just money making schemes, not safety issues at all. This is what happened to me, this is how I feel about speed traps. I think this because I think this. I am not influenced by party affiliations.

    This is still a free country and there is still freedom of speech.

  12. JFro says:

    Why do they even make cars that go 100 mph? Where can you even drive a car that fast? And don't bother with the "..well, in Montana blah blah blah…"

  13. James Young says:

    The solution to speed traps is to have all fines, administrative costs, court fees and other monies extracted from the public go to a public corporation at the state level and then have this corporation fund scholarships to state universities. Take the profit out of abusive speed enforcement and it will evaporate. If we aren't willing to use tax money for enforcement activities then they aren't worth doing.

    The solution to crashes (the neutral term used by NHTSA & investigators) is well under way. While fatality rates will never get to nil, we have the lowest fatality rates in our history and they just keep dropping. Improvements in these and ancillary rates derive primarily from technology, not from enforcement or changes in speed limits.

    Traffic laws are a legal solution to an organizational problem when they deal with right-of-way issues such as driving on the right, taking turns at signs or signals. Speed limits have never been a part of that solution and serve only to reduce the efficiency of the system.

  14. speedfreak says:

    I've been driving for a few years now and here is what i can tell you about cops I've seen. They love speeders. I've never been tagged for speeding and that is not an amazing idea as if you figure your system out you can stop speeding before all the traps.

    The "SPEED KILLS" thing is not true in a modern car as they are designed to keep you safe in almost every kind of collision. Look at places that have bumped limits to 85+ MPH did their death rate go up? The problem with crashes is usually a DRIVER error not a speed problem. I'm not saying speed might not have been a contributing factor, but it's not the only factor in most crashes. Have any of you looked at the current drivers test? They are not hard enough to make drivers learn how to really drive. Here you go to a classroom do your classes take the written test, which is easy common sense stuff, and then your on a permit. Take your several hours in a car with an instructor, have your parent sign the paperwork, and take your test. The road test has some basic signals and park items, pass those and your golden. Is that truly all you'll see in a real driving experience, NO. Simple put the lack of care by the younger generation is they have no fear of driving or speed. The US has some of the easiest driving tests in the world.

    Look at Germany a country that has a huge population density compared to most parts of the US and they still have parts of the Autobahn that are unrestricted. That is because people there can still drive at very high speed and not crash. The reason is they go through a very strict and long training involving speed driving and avoiding crashes. It's more like getting a pilots license here hundreds of hours of work, not a few weeknights and a little studying.

    Also there are plenty of cars on US roads that are just not safe to drive at any speed, but they can drive them at the speed limit fine, but those with a good solid car that do 5-10 over get hit with huge fines, because we are going faster then some person in an office in the capitol as set, or even in the local city hall. All speed limits should be evaluated every 3 years for major highways, and all the "reports" should be public.

    "speed doesn't kill, abrupt stops kill. So just don't stop suddenly"

  15. logan says:

    I adamantly disagree with jhughes, who thinks that speed traps save lives and protect citizens. Speed traps are entrapment, and therefore unconstitutional. Anyone "citizen" that supports a law maker that is a LAW BREAKER, is no citizen in MY country. If you are going to act like a sheep, JHughes…then you deserve to be treated like a sheep!!!

  16. Gideon says:

    When people can't see the system is warped, the judges are NOT doing honest , fair judging, when the officers word is ALWAYS correct over the accused, that is the same as a dictatorship. You ARE guilty and YOU will pay.

    If these judges and officers had the right to cut off your hands or impose death, and your word against theirs was null and void, you would look at this a whole different way.

    WE HAVE BEEN CONDITIONED to "THINK" they are doing their job, but what if the system is warped for the sake of money, and that cop is only stealing legally because the system has enabled him via Abuse of power, Above the law attitudes.

    The corrupt judges seem to be that way, and these type of letters, need to go back to the gov. officials, so they know they are not as clever as they think they are, and that wwe do not hold them in high esteem any longer.

    I believe there are good judges and good cops, but I believe the system and it's control of power and money has warped judgement, honesty, and doing whats right from the judicial seats.

    Our country when first established, had lawless ness etc. but they still founded a country that was free, so even with the lack of speed controls, gun controls, etc. they still made this country work for 100 + years before governing assholes decided to start removing the freedoms and imposing the "queens" taxes again.

    Just think about it and watch, and then maybe, just maybe, you'll see the cops are not doing their jobs (protecting and serving), but breaking legs and imposing hardship.

    They want respect.. they gotta earn it

  17. C. Richter says:

    I have driven well over a million miles, and I wish I had a dollar for every speed trap that I have seen!Here is a definition of a speed trap. It is a place where 85% or more, of the traffic is exceeding the speed limit by more than 5 miles per hour. When MOST of the traffic is exceeding the speed limit it should be obvious the limit is set too low.

  18. Paul R. says:

    Everyone knows tickets are to raise revenue especially if there are speed traps. Speed is not the main cause of accidents, FATIGUE is, and that is proven by all state police forces and sheriff departments and private institutions. Police today would rather ticket an old lady than go after a violent drug gang. They are no longer to protect and serve but to raise revenue. Perhaps we should all flash our lights to warn our fellow drivers of these revenue generators lurching on the side of the roads.

  19. Paul R. says:

    Do you feel safe when a person of "authority" is driving behind you? Police very rarely prevent crime they only arrive after the crime has been committed to take the report. Most crimes go unsolved because there is no incentive for the "authorities" to go after violent people or investigate who stole your lawn mower. We would be better off with private detectives investigating our crimes and private security firms protecting our neighborhoods. A private firm would have a reason to protect you and investigate crimes , the reason is profit, which is a good thing. Government can't and will not protect us. It is up to us to defend our families, not ticket writers.

  20. jerry says:

    we're not here to decide if speed kills or not. We're here to debate traps. There is a difference. The traps are sneakiy and only for money. If u show to court or not makes no difference in the fine. Pay up or else. $120.00 a speeder times 10 a day is a good days pay for 1 speed trap. Catch em fair & square & it would't be dubbed a speed trap. We are also not talking about 90 mph in a 70 or 60 mph zone. We are talking 50 in 35 or 30 in a 25, coming down a hill or something. That's the difference in a sped trap. Next it's do as I say not as I do. The trapper gets you for 30 in a 25, but then the next day he passes you at 40 or 50 in the same area and 5 mile up the road he is in the restaurant or donut shop. All u trappers tell me its different, and your integrity is impuned. Been there, seen it. It'll take u 2 years to slow down after you retire. Been there seen it. thanks just use your head

  21. Paul R. says:

    If money was not the reason for writing a ticket then why do the "authorities" give you a ticket that has a monetary punishment? Perhaps they could write a ticket without a monetary punishment that just goes to the insurance companies like today, so they can determine your risk. What is the monetary punishment for if it is not to raise money.

  22. Rural Cop says:

    I read all of these comments and wonder why people think so hard about a simple solution. You would think everyone was a politician. The easiest way to shut down a so called "speed trap" is…………DON'T SPEED!
    If everyone would pay attention to their driving and not their next cd, cell phone call or text message we would not have these problems. Everything is more important than driving a 2-4 ton vehicle @ 50-75 MPH. Any speed limit on any state maintained highway is determined by the state. You want to fix a problem, get elected or vote someone into office that will listen. A cop does not determine the law, only enforce it. Do you gripe about a gas station because gas prices are too high. Think about it.

  23. James Young says:

    "The easiest way to shut down a so called "speed trap" is——DON'T SPEED!" Rural Cop

    Sure. And the speed limits that produce so many speedtraps are set well below the optimal speed more the majority of drivers. They are statistically much more dangerous than higher limits closer to optimal speeds.

    "If everyone would pay attention to their driving and not their next cd, cell phone call or text message we would not have these problems."

    While paying attention to one's driving is an important issue, to conflate "speeding" with inattentive driving and use of cell phones is dishonest. I'm surprised that you didn't throw in drunk driving and a school zone.

    "Any speed limit on any state maintained highway is determined by the state."

    Partially true. Engineers determine the scientific limit and then politicians step in and reduce that limit to well below the optimal and safest range. They are, in effect, condemning a certain higher proportion of drivers to suffer from crashes.

    "A cop does not determine the law, only enforce it."

    BS. Cops and their agencies lobby for particular laws, lower limits, lower BAC levels, more intrusive enforcement and further erosion of civil liberties all the time and all with public funds. And cops are afforded much greater access than regular citizens.

  24. Bill Leavitt says:

    I can't beleve some of those people who believe you can keep from getting a traffic violation by just not speeding. At most speed traps law enforcement will issue tickets for revenue. The allegation for the initial stop is simply an accusation unless you were actually speeding. Once you are stopped and you have shown your drivers license your whole profile is public to the officer. A succession of questions by law enforcement answered without indignation may make or break whether or not you get a ticket if you are not guilty. I have been given tickets for burned out lights, cracks in windshields, no seat belt while driving, no proof of insurance when if I had a cell phone all I would have had to do was call my insurance agent. The newest favorite for Tennessee is failure to file your change of address on your drivers license when you move within ten days. Most of these are good for fines of $25.00 to $125.00. Simply answer the questions and see if any law-enforcement officers issue warning tickets. I actually did get one for going 65 in a 55 in a zone where construction was not in progress and I missed the sign in Alabama.

    A speed trap does not always mean you are stopped for speeding unless that jurisdiction is simply counting its fines. The officer told me to be careful and simply keep watch. The warning ticket was simply a log entry to justify he was doing his job. Bill Leavitt

  25. Fritz says:

    First I think jhughes is just a rogue trying to inflame the debate, which he/she has successfully done. If somebody is that far from reality their probably never going to be able to see the truth anyhow. jhughes is almost a stand alone in this sea of opinions. Unfortunately for the rest of us the jhughes of the world tend to run for public office and get elected or fill a public office that has authority to do such nasty things. The rest of us whom hate speed traps and abusive law enforcement tend not to run for public office or fill positions of influence over such activity. Most don't even write their public officials and herein lies the root of the problem. We've allowed the problem to fester and now it's showing up in our daily driving lives big time. Every time I drive to work I am constantly reminded how bad things have gotten.

    Due to the volumes of information on the subject on the Internet and the various print and TV media, basically nobody in their right mind is going to argue about the true intent of speed traps and traffic control in the USA. It's the country's worst keep secret. It's no longer even uncommon for a municipality to deny that revenue is the main motivation behind such. In fact some of them brag about the revenue they make. Don't you find it interesting that the very factor that causes the least accidents gets the most tickets. See http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/19/1992.asp

    Revenue from traffic control in general and speed traps in particular is a cancer that's eaten away at the moral and ethical standards that law enforcement used to enjoy. Gone are the days when officers walked the beat and gained a repore and respect from their constituents. Now-a-days the only way you meet your friendly local cop is during a traffic stop. Not the best way to influence support especially if the cop becomes abusive in the process.
    Revenue has corrupted our local governments too. All municipalities now have annual budgets in which a certain percentage of their operating revenue is expected to be filled by traffic ticket revenue. The smaller the jurisdiction the worse it tends to get.

    And, I get a little tired of these sympathizers who constantly echo that cops are JUST doing job. What a hell'va job that must be. In my younger days as with most of you, we could have become cops too. We were/are certainly physically fit enough and intelligent enough but who wants to set out there on the highways and byways manning a speed trap screwing your fellow citizens all day long. I don't know about you but this is not my idea of a ideal job. That's not to say we don't need cops and even traffic cops but we need cops who don't have an agenda, a giant ego, ones who are testosterone driven or all of the above. A truly good cop is worth a million dollars, a bad cop is your worst nightmare and a mediocre cop is somewhere in between. Sure there good cops but I dare say most of those are not going to slouch to the lowly level of constantly manning a radar gun generating revenue for your employer. Traffic control was never intended to become business like it has. Then some would say we are all a bunch of cop haters so don't call one when you need one. It's always been my premise that we have police to protect us from crime not set out there and write tickets all day long. I don't consider most of my fellow drivers criminals. It's pretty much human nature to dislike something when you get mistreated by it or you see a serious miscarriage of justice administered by it. And most crime victims will tell you that a cop was no where to be found when they became victims of a crime.

    There's been many thoughtful and intelligent posts on this site. I just hope you'll turn around and echo those comments to your state and local public officials. Those of us who see this corruption and miscarriage of justice HAS got to start being heard by government officials because if we fail to speak up believe it or not things can get a lot worse. Some of the enforcement technology on the horizon will make you almost afraid to pull out of your driveway. Jealous public officials and new technology are culminating to make our driving experience miserable and expensive.

  26. Fritz says:

    I wonder what planet jhughes came from?

  27. Cullen says:

    To all who say "Simple, don't break the law and you won't get caught"

    Read this quote and weep.

    "It is not possible to rule innocent men; the only power government has is the power to crack down upon criminals. When no criminals exist, one makes them – one declares so many things to be a crime that it becomes impossible for men to live without breaking laws."
    -Ayn Rand

    That is exactly what is going on here on our roads and highways.

    A "speed trap" is not simply an officer or officers clocking speeds in a certain location. It's a location where the speed limit goes down by a silly amount for no reason, and cops are almost always clocking speeds there hoping to catch those who missed the signs. A good example of that is Town Creek, AL near where I live. Highway 20 is 4 lanes and very wide, with a 65 speed limit. The limit drops to 45 THREE MILES away from the center of town to the west and at least TWO miles before it needs to. The drop on the east side of town is appropriate and is only a mile away from the center of town. The west side of the town is a true "speed trap" – for 2 of those 3 miles of 45, nothing but cornfields line the highway. Tell me exactly why the speed limit is 45. I bet you can't, and the only "legitimate" excuse is it's a speed trap used for revenue enhancement.

  28. Renee Marks says:

    I thought you were asking if I knew of a speed trap….IN KCK, there are so many it is ridiculous. They don't fight crime here, but they do write tickets. We are known as having the MOST unsolved MURDERS…Why, Because Wyndotte County cops are busy writing tickets. The best spot is MINNESOTA AVE…THE only street that has a 20 mile per hr limit. I got a ticket for going around a driver on his right who was sitting at the light waitng to left. Yep, that's right. But mainly, they are waiting for speeders. A block over State Ave is 35 miles an hour…

  29. Renee Marks says:

    From 1st & Minnesota to 38th st…Speed limit is 20…KAnsas City KS. They're just waiting to write a ticket for almost anything…some which no one probably knew was a crime, Like passing on the right while another passenger sits at the light waiting to make a left turn.

  30. Jeff says:

    I fully support the consensus of the group that speed traps are purely for revenue generation. The argument that they are to increase roadway safety is completely bogus on so many levels. One thought that I will add is…

    The fact of the matter is that speed limits are set unnecessarily low to generate revenues and speeding fines are generally set at a level where (for most of us) they create a minimal amount of pain. I believe the fines are set intentionally low enough to ensure that most people will simply write a check because their time is more valuable than spending a few hours contesting a ticket.

    If adhering to speed limits was so detrimental to our driving safety, then the fines for speeding should be raised to something like $1000 for driving 1 mph over and mandatory jail time for 5mph over. If I were faced with those penalties, I would certainly *not* speed…ever! The result of this change? Thousands cops would be out of work since the revenue stream and job-justifying duties (conducting speed traps) they currently perform would cease to exist.

  31. Mike says:

    I don't like speed traps at all. But the real kicker (and my total rant) is how a private company (your insurance company) can surcharge you for speeding. You didn't cost your insurance company any money in a claim. Yet, you get 2 or 3 points depending… It will cost you more in insurance for a stupid speeding ticket than it would by the courts for punching someone out in a bar. It's ludicrous.
    Imagine if you went to walmart and had to pay a surcharge on your toilet paper because you got caught speeding.
    It amounts to the same thing.
    You can thank your insurance company for purchasing the Lidar/radar guns used by law enforcement to set up speed traps with.
    They are in bed together.

  32. JeD says:

    "Don't speed = don't get a ticket" is another one of those things you say to simpletons to make the bad dreams go away. However, it doesn't come close to the truth. One evening, about 9pm, in NJ, I was driving from A to B, with out of State plates, in a plain white four door sedan, with wife and son. I was conspicuously sticking to the speed limit. I had already observed many police vehicles, in transit, usually well above the posted speed limit "but I thought speed kills?", and in the process of ticketing other drivers. A car flys up the left lane, slams on the brakes to suddenly not pass me. Side/tailgates for several seconds, moves back to the driver's blind spot, sidegates for a several more seconds, pulls in behind me, rides the rear bumper for a while longer, then come the red and blue lights. The officer strolls up and tells me I've been pulled over for having a taillight or a brakelight out. !!?? OK, so it was working when I left point A it worked. I'll get it fixed tomorrow. The next thing I know, I'm being told to step out of the vehicle and he's pressuring me to submit to a drug search of my vehicle. I figured that since I've never been anywhere near drugs in my life that a search, which will turn up nothing, would put me squarely in the good guy column and he would let me go. Then I and my whole family have to sit on the side of the road at 9:30 at night, long past the kid's bedtime, without proper warm clothing, we were supposed to be inside the whole trip, for 45 minutes while the new drug dog cop plays with his niffty toy and is observed by not 1 but 4 other officers. Then when it is finally all over, he still writes me a $60 citation for a non-maintenance of a light. A light which on inspection the next morning I can't find!!

    Yeah, "don't speed = don't get a ticket". There's this bridge in AZ I'd love to sell you. Cops don't enforce the law, they enforce their personal pet peeves, selectively. Then when you get robbed or mugged or some other serious issue, the bad guy gets away, or a lawyer gets him off with a bit of a fine. And they wonder why the profession has lost so much respect in the last few decades? Get a clue. This is only one reason I doubt anything a copy says. There are many others to go with it.

  33. Mike says:

    Accidents are bound to happen. Speed has little or nothing to do with that. It is a statistical guarantee that with more cars on the road, there will be more accidents. As our population increases, there will be more and more accidents. I guarantee it.

    Sure, we could try and reduce that number, but at what cost. I promise we could find more terriorists if the police were allowed to do sweeping raids on peoples homes with no warrant or probable cause. We would be "safer", but at what cost?

    If the issue was to truly reduce the number of collisions through speed enforcement, they federal government could simply mandate that all states must require governors be placed on all cars which caps the vehicles speed at the maximum speed limit in that state. This would not prevent all speeding, but it would help.

    As GPS technology progresses, we could track the speed of all cars and either restrict their speed remotely or issue citations based on the GPS readings.

    If these examples are not enough, I'm sure you can think of some more on your own. Point is, where are we headed with all of this? At what point will we sacrifice ALL of our freedom to be "safe"? Is this the world you want to live in?

    Death is a part of life. Accept it and do what YOU can to be safe and avoid danger. Let the rest of us live free!!!

  34. Thom says:

    Don't get upset with JHUGHES, given time he'll be picked up as well whether he's speeding or going too slow impeding traffic (thereby driving reckless)leading to accidents and perhaps killing someone as a result. They have no knowledge. He must trust the accuracy of his speedo. Every car off the assembly line has inherent inaccuracies and have guidelines set by the government. Remember, each speedo part is supplied by the lowest bidder/supplier. Older vehicles with higher mileage, changed equipment, tire size change or low pressure changes the speed readings. My own vehicle speedo is off and I had it checked by a friendly NH cop, and GPSso know the errors at various speeds. Even the cop's car will have a variation between their own speedo and the radar they are using, guaranteed. The JHUGHES of this planet will get theirs given time and the cops have time.

    I have been a quality control engineer for 26 years supplying custom gaging products to many different industries around the country which covers cameras, watches, Aerospace, Defense (Patriot Missile etc), gearing, thread gaging to name a few and I have patents. So I know something about systems.

    Do some GOOGLE searches about speedo errors and how some countries/states compensate for these errors if they aren't revenue crazy. It's noted that some places allow 10% plus 4mph, others 5-10mph from the speed limit. The radar unit itself has errors if not setup correctly. Stone buildings give off radiation which can fool a radar unit. I doubt the cop using the radar knows everything about it such as the cosine factor, miss readings, correct calibration and the safety/health factor.

    Let the cop get exposed to the radiation/ microwave emissions. If they wouldn't stick their head in a microwave oven, why use the radar, it's use is accumulative. It should be a health concern. But guess they are dumbed to the fact the "the government says they are safe". But, if they wind up with health problems, they'll get disability/work comp from the public. If you doubt this, the CT State Police had a big problem; officers were getting tumors and cancer because of the exposure. This fact is well known in NE. Cell phones and exposure to electrical fields have been a concern for years. Why be exposed to some alien questionable device??? It's dumb. Sit on a speed trap and get cooked.

    In a town in lower AL, I got picked up for speeding (about 5 seconds worth) in a strange vehicle. I realized my speed picked up a bit going down a grade so I backed off. A cop got me in that 5 second period. Being an out of stater traveling in AL it shocked me. It wasn't my average speed, on a open country road, nothing reckless. Upon investigation, there wasn't any speed limit signs and the cop was out of his jurisdiction. They constantly patrol these roads as I found out as the speed limit was low. In Court, the cop lied under oath and the so-called "judge" threw out the law violations by the cop. The "trial" wasn't suppose to be in that court. But they want the money. I pleaded not guilty and am appealing. That 5 seconds so far has cost over $350. I have proof of all infractions by the cop and judge. May sue the town as well when done. Furthermore, I was ready to pay either by check or credit card, if I had to pay a fine. They would only accept CASH. If I didn't have a friend who used the ATM, I'd be in jail. They don't inform you CASH was the only method of payment. The judge was a total prick, must have been a lawyer that couldn't succeed in private practice, so got the lucrative judge position and is milking the public. Good luck to the JHUGHES's.

    It's amazing to see how corrupt the local cops and judges are in certain areas. I saw young girls leave the court crying wherein they stated they were not guilty of the charges. You knew they were telling the truth. In speed trap/heavy patrolled areas there isn't such a thing as verbal/written warnings. The Federal government is corrupt, some state government and the local government. What does all this have to say to the youth of this country? Just do as they do; lie, cheat and steal.

    I totally agree with the seven ways to defeat the speed traps as I've already planned on doing those things and more as herein mentioned. AND FRITZ is right on the money.

    I've driven for 50 years and over two million miles without an accident or a ticket. Now I've spent $$$$ and may have my credit & license points/insurance rate increase because of rogue cops and a greedy local system.

    Sorry to take so much space, waiting for the JHUGHES's to get a dose of reality.

  35. hubcap says:

    Y'all seem to be missing the big picture here. America is a now a fascist state and well on its way to a totalitarian theocracy. It's been a subtle power grab, but they have been largely successful and the USA looks very much like Germany in the Thirties.

    Under the wildly exaggerated threat of "terroris", we have lost the fundamental cornerstones of liberty; habeas corpus is gone; posse comitatis is gone, the Fourth and Eighth Amendments are gone. The entire concept of due process and judicial review are in serious jeopardy.

    The continued existence of speed traps is but one tiny step in the march to a complete abdication of liberty, one that allows and expands police power. (And to read the comments of the LEOs in these threads, it is clear that nothing would please the average cop more than absolute unchecked power–even more than they have now.)

    The next step the ruling class will take will be to severely restrict travel. They've already made it difficult; gas is expensive, driving – especially out of state – is just asking to get arrested, and flying is just absurd in its level of inconvenience. Take the train? Let's just say Amtrak's website should be called youcantgettherefromhere.com.

    When the police have and indiscriminately use their unfettered power to stop you, search your vehicle and your person they are acting as agents for the corrupt regime and are as individuals as much as hazard to the Constitution as George Bush himself.

    Any police officer or public official participating in a speed trap, DUI/seatbelt/license checkpoint, or unwarranted search is a traitor to the Constitution and should be treated as such.

    BTW that suggestion to call your "representatives"? What a friggin' joke. Nobody represents the people; we are on our own.

    PS: To the NSA agent reading this with AT&T's help: To Hell with you and your boss; I refuse to live in fear.

  36. Thom says:

    I totally agree with HUBCAP as well as all my HS classmates of the '57 era; Air Force military friends whom all realize that era was the best. This country is going to hell in a basket mostly generated by greed.

    Also I give this email being distributed as an enlightenment on the internet:

    Traffic Cop Saturday, May 6 2006

    I was flying down the road yesterday (ie 20 mph over the limit). I passed under a bridge only to find a policeman with a radar gun on the other side laying in wait. He pulled me over, walked to the car and with that classic patronizing smirk we all know and love, asked "What's your hurry?"

    To which I replied "I'm late for work."

    "Oh yeah", said the policeman, "what do you do?"

    "I'm a rectum stretcher," I responded.

    The policeman stammered, "A what?; A rectum stretcher? And just what does a rectum stretcher do?"

    "Well," I said, "I start by inserting one finger, then I work my way up to two fingers, then three, then four, then with my whole hand in I work side to side until I can get both hands in, and then I slowly but surely stretch, until it's about 6 feet wide."

    "And just what the hell do you do with a 6 foot asshole?" To which I politely replied, "you give him a radar gun and park him behind a bridge…"

    Traffic ticket 195.00 Court costs 45.00 The look on his face:

  37. Thom says:

    To HUBCAP, really appreciate your expression of reality as well as FRITZ did. You'd be interested in my circle of friends as we have such/similar concerns and views. It's an enjoyment to see someone of equal or more intelligence/awareness, you're sharp and well learned and would be interesting to talk with.

    If more people had such convictions, self esteem and education, this country would not be in decline and police power and government(s) would be more rational and respected by the concerns of it's citizens. But they (cops and legislators) are a product of their mentality and influence.

    Too many sheep (JHUGHES's for instance) exist because of the government (all the give-away money schemes to get voters) and they all allow/condone it everything. People have to get a handle on it and have the Constitution respected. But most of them are a result of public (government) schools, lousy education. If done, perhaps people can again roam the highways freely, enjoy the country without being subjected to the corrupt/greedy police and courts/judges, as I've found out.

    In the military I put my life on the line for this country and to think this is the evolution of my sacrifices. I'll fight these bastards to the end to protect my kids and their kids. I'm one mad vet and citizen.

  38. Thom says:

    I hope the NMA is aware of this as well as the public.

    Speeding Tickets
    Depending on where you live, speeding ticket fines can range from the puny to the punitive.

    In July, Virginia began charging most speeders an additional $1,050 fine on top of its usual $300, with drunken drivers there now facing an additional fine of up to $2,250. Other heavy hitting states include Georgia, Illinois and North Carolina, where maximum fines can hit $1,000, as well as New York, Texas and New Jersey.

    Obviously, drivers and driver groups are upset at having to pay out more than their share to fund infrastructure improvements — the root of the Virginia fine increases — while some groups believe the fine increase acts as a deterrent against speeding or reckless drivers.

    Top 10 States with Maximum Fines
    States Fines
    Virginia $1311
    Nevada $1000
    Georgia $1000
    North Carolina $1000
    Illinois $1000
    New Hampshire $1000
    Utah $750
    Oregon $600
    Kansas $500
    Maryland $500

    Source: National Highway Traffic Safety Administration
    Virginia's new law (which impacts only Virginia residents, not drivers from other states caught in Virginia) imposes a mandatory $1,050 fee on anyone convicted of a speeding ticket for driving more than 20 mph over the limit, or anyone traveling 15 mph over the limit in a 65 mph zone. When added to a drunken driving offense, a speeding ticket's total can reach $3,550. Fees are added to almost all traffic offenses, felony and misdemeanor, including reckless driving or even driving with faulty brakes. You can also incur the inflated fine for using the wrong turn signal or driving too fast for conditions. Simple traffic infractions like rolling through a stop sign will not result in an increased fine. Some solace is offered in that only Virginia residents will be targeted, out-of-state drivers won't have to pay the add-on fees, but will still be fined for the original offense, or usually about $300.

    Toward infrastructure
    State lawmakers in Virginia expect to raise $60 to $120 million a year through their "civil remedial fees," to be put toward road improvements and maintenance, the Washington Post reports. Some studies suggest states could raise as much as $57 billion toward infrastructure improvements if they pursued the same policies. That's quite an incentive and, increasingly, seems to be the way lawmakers are turning. Many states and cities add "surcharges" to standard speeding ticket fines, though these are often smaller — about $100 per offense — and do apply to out-of-state drivers.

    The hefty Virginia levy drew heavy fire. One state lawmaker, Delegate Bob Marshall, a Republican, complained that the bill's passing would be akin to "turning the police into tax collectors with guns." Even AAA, which backed the punitive measures initially, released a statement this week distancing itself somewhat from the policy.

    "While the abusive driver fees were designed to help fund road maintenance in the Commonwealth and were intended to serve as a deterrent to dangerous driving behaviors, they have clearly been met with disapproval by many," the American Automobile Association statement said.

    Rankings provided by The Insurance Institute for Highway Safety (IIHS)
    Gov. Tim Kaine has indicated he doesn't want to make any changes to the law other than to expand the fees to include out-of-state motorists. AAA has endorsed this expansion.

    The effect
    In some counties of Virginia, including Henrico County, all drivers with speeding tickets for driving above 90 mph face an automatic one-day stay in jail. Some offenses, such as passing a school bus, are treated as a misdemeanor that remains permanently on your record. Chances are your insurance will rocket, too, in which case anything you can do to mitigate this hit — like taking a traffic-school class — pays for itself in the long run. The Web site speedingticketcentral.com advises that, in their editors' experience, drivers will escape most fines by keeping within 10 mph of the speed limit.

    Policies like a state's insistence on collecting the first part of a $1,050 speeding ticket fine, or $350, at the courthouse, as in Virginia, have further angered motorists. "A lot of times they are surprised, they don't realize how big these fines are," said Aaron Quinn of the National Motorists Association. "A lot of people are getting their license(s) suspended because they can't pay these fines, which triggers an ongoing cycle of fines. There's no deterrent between paying $200 and $2,000. No one wants to pay either. Two thousand dollars can be a huge chunk of annual income if you're making minimum wage."

    Learn about the latest safety technology and which vehicles are best for your family.
    Enter here
    Quinn says lawmakers have gone in the direction of speeding ticket fines because "it is politically unpopular to raise taxes, especially the gasoline tax, where much of the road funding comes from. No one likes raising the income tax. But by going after speeders, no one will argue."

    Don't think of packing up and heading to Canada to escape hefty speeding ticket fines: Ontario has passed a law that takes effect Sept. 30 that includes a $10,000 fine for the worst speeders, 25 mph over the speed limit. A second offense could result in a 10-year driving ban. To prove they mean business, a special surveillance plane will help police enforce the law.

  39. Hubcap says:

    To Thom: Thanks for the compliments {{blush}}!!

    This idea of high fines earmarked for certain public expenditures is at best counter productive and a good example of why politicians always seem to be spending us ever deeper into debt.

    The object of very high fines is to stop people from speeding. Fair enough. But then if the fines actually have the desired effect and nobody speeds, the revenue stream from speeding tickets dries up, and whatever project – like say bridge maintenance – that was dependant on that income now has to be funded from some other source.

    Same thing with taxing smokers to pay for health care; it conflates a "sin tax" with financing the common good.

    I have no problem paying taxes. Taxes fund the infrastructure necessary to maintain a healthy, productive, and educated citizenry. If you need money to fix and maintain that infrastructure whether it be transportation, healthcare, education or space exploration, just ask and I think we are all ok with kicking in a few extra bucks.

    However I have a real problem with politicians telling me my taxes will be low while funding the commonwealth by extorting money from a few individuals and calling it "justice".

  40. Rural Cop says:

    I see several people talking about the fines they received form speed traps and how greed is corrupting our country. I am not saying there is not one out there, but where is the website for the profits oil companies are making?
    Just a comparison.

    Speeding ticket: $300-$1311 (in Virginia, per Thom)
    Approximate revenue generated: $60-$120 million per year (per Thom's information)

    Gallon of gas: $3.18 (on average)
    Revenue produced: $56 billion (per interview with the president of Shell Oil, 11-14-07)

    Now in my opinion, that is a problem.

    I would rather see my money support local communities than some CEO's 17 year old dopehead.

    Also, I must not work for a speed trap commumity (even though we were listed on SpeedTrap.org), because the town does not have the money, and neither does our police department. We don't drive new cars, don't have pretty uniforms or new equipment, and don't make much money.

    Don't take an experience with one Police Officer and make it as if the majority are bad or corrupt. We can say the same about citizens. Try and look at it from our perspective.

  41. mike says:

    Rural Cop- you may be the exception, but you are not the rule.

    You are blind or shielded from what most people live with as you wear the "blues" that exempt you from the very laws we, the general public are all subject to.

    On your days off, if you are pulled over, do you not get a pass when you show your badge? You know nothing of being on the receiving end of what you dish out on a daily basis.

    I truly feel bad for the very few good cops that are out there but I'm afraid I have been screwed so many times now by power drunk police that I must stereotype them all as mindless minions of the state who have only the common sense of a robot programmed to destroy the free society our forefathers envisioned for this great nation.

  42. Hubcap says:

    I agree with Mike.

    No one who carries the "brass pass" can know the sheer terror of having a cop car roll up behind you on a lonely highway. You don't know if you're in for a friendly warning for a lamp out or the beating of your life because you just happen to "fit the description."

    It is a really sad commentary that as I go through my day-to-day life, I feel as if I have far more to fear from the police than I do from any criminal. And I'm a middle-aged white guy. I can only imagine how much worse it is for Blacks and Latinos.

    So LEOs, how do you answer that?

  43. Paul says:

    In reading these posts, I have to say a couple of things. We get the government that we deserve. We, as a nation, are more interested in Paris Hilton than we are concerned about liberty and our civil rights. The "don't speed and you have no problem" bunch is missing the larger point. Our laws are more and more about CONTROL over you and I. Sort of like Farenheit 451, we are lulled to sleep by our PRO SPORTS and ENTERTAINMENT. And we sit here and wonder why our government screws us? Why shouldn't it. Gosh knows we are not paying attention. Police are always lobbying for more "tools" to fight the war on ______ (fill in the blank). Our politicians always love to be seen in ads with cops. Makes them look tough. I once took a class taught by a County Magistrate when I lived in West Virginia. The most profound thing that he said was that "some day we will lock up all the drug lords.. then we will need to come after you". No kidding if that isn't the truth. MADD started out with a noble cause, but what are they fighting for now? Even lower BAC limits (that have nothing to do with drunk driving) and MORE tools for police to stop you (primary enforcement of seat belt laws).

    Yeah, all you "law and order" kinds that like strict law enforcement would have loved Nazi Germany too. The furher would have enjoyed your compliant, bend over approach. You guys must love it when your tax money is used to fund another "crackdown" all in the names of saving just one life.

    Meanwhile, the lives of all of us are being killed slowly a bit every day. I'm not for reckless driving. Most cops are honest and hard working. But it is clear to me that we are living in a world that is being lulled to sleep by its own apathy as the iron fist of an almighty and all powerful government with its IRS, FBI and "sharing" information with our local government is choking us to death.

    But hey, as long as the NFL plays on Sundays, what do we care?

  44. Officer Josh says:

    Ok thats rediculous hubcap what did you say the "shear terror of a cop pulling up on you" haha thats rediculous "the beating of a lifetime" lol. b/c you fit a description doesnt mean you are gonna get beat it means we might tell you to get out of the car and lay down but thats for our own safety not to "abuse you". i mean if your not guilty a cop rolling up on you shouldnt be a problem. man you must have a guilty conscience or a warrant out for you. lol very comical statement. And to label all cops as "power drunk" is like saying all citizens are criminals on our end. i mean our job does jade us a little i mean if you delt with the scum of the earth everyday you would be to. People wonder why we approach aggressivly, its b/c we dont know that your a good person everyone looks nice but you could pull a gun out any second and thats how we have to treat a situation or were dead.

  45. hubcap says:

    Apparently times have changed. It's been pushing two decades since the last time I was pulled over and I recall it was kind of a gentleman's agreement for speeding. "Yeah, you caught me fair and square. I'll pay my fine, and so long until we meet again officer."

    So it's about 10:00 on a Wednesday night and I'm on my way home from school, rolling down a very empty freeway. Yeah I'm over the limit, but there's not another car in sight.

    Suddenly I'm being tailgated close so I try to decide if I should go left or right to get out of this jerk's way. That's about when the aforementioned jerk lights me up.

    He put up so much light I couldn't see a damn thing. We are now doing 70 mph bumper to bumper and he blinds me, nice move. I'm trying to pick my way over the right shoulder and the officer gets on his PA and starts barking orders. "DON'T STOP HERE! I. WILL. TELL. YOU.WHEN. TO STOP".

    From that point on there was nothing I could do right. It was like boot camp. "TURN YOUR LIGHTS OFF!" TURN YOUR LIGHTS ON! I DIDN'T SAY ANYTHING ABOUT FLASHERS! TURN THE FLASHERS OFF! It never stopped; it was just a wall of sound-this guy barking orders like a goddamned Marine DI.

    When I finally got to a point when I guess it was okay to stop, he bellows "STOP THE VEHICLE! STOP THE VEHICLE! STOP THE VEHICLE NOW!" Literally he's still screaming "STOP THE VEHICLE!" as I'm pulling up on the park brake.

    By now I figure going 85 is the least of my problems. I have the windows down and my hands out the driver's window. He approaches the car, looks in and starts screaming again "WHO TOLD YOU TO PUT YOUR HANDS UP? TURN OFF THE ENGINE-KEEP THOSE HANDS WHERE I CAN SEE THEM! He asks questions, but never stops shouting so I can't answer. "WHY ARE YOU ACTING STRANGE? HOW MUCH HAVE YOU HAD TO DRINK?" He asked me that one about 400 times. He keeps the light in my face so I can't see him or anything else.

    I keep my mouth shut. I don't want to do or say anything that is going to make this guy any angrier with me. Meanwhile I'm trying to figure out exactly what it is I did wrong besides being on his freeway at the wrong time.

    He looks at my papers, sees that they are in order and says "Clearly you don't get pulled over very often, don't speed and that won't happen. Consider this a verbal warning".
    He gets back in his cruiser and is gone in a flash.

    All that for speeding and I didn't even get a ticket?! The only thing I can think is that he somehow became convinced that I was his big 502 bust for the night, the duce that was going to run and he was more than a little pissed off when I turned out to be just an old white guy driving a little too fast.

  46. hubcap says:

    Officer Josh, my feelings are my feelings. You can call them ridiculous if you wish, but I haven't just made this stuff up. Feelings are born of experience. Let's call it Rodney King Syndrome.

    All of us here in San Diego still quite vividly recall the CHP officer who used to pull over young women and take them down below an overpass for a "conversation"…until one young lady turned up dead.

    Or the SD police officer a few years ago who cruised the beach committing rape. Or more recently the cop who shot a San Diego Charger in the course of "apprehending a drunk driver" even though the aforementioned officer was off-duty, out of his jurisdiction and of questionable sobriety himself.

    And just this past weekend there were two separate cases of security guards pretending to be real cops and demanding sexual favors from women. (Yeah I know they are not "sworn officers" but they wear uniforms and frequently have guns so when you are the receiving end of some excessive authoritarianism, the officer's certification level makes not one whit of difference.)

    Add that to dozen or more cases of cops shooting and killing unarmed civilians (mostly homeless) generally for the crime of "bizarre behavior" over the past decade, and yes, I have more to fear from the police than the criminal.

    If I am confronted by a criminal, I can either fight or run. I can do neither of those things when a cop is looking to jack me up.

  47. Hubcap says:

    To continue, Officer Josh, your comment that I must be guilty of something or have a warrant if I'm not just kicking back enjoying my roadside detention is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. You assume I'm guilty of something; I probably just haven't been caught yet.

    Yes, I understand when you pull a vehicle over; you have no idea what you are walking into. It may very well be the last stop you ever make. I'm sure it can be more than a little frightening. I get it.

    But what you have to understand is that I'm in exactly the same position when you pull me over. I do not know if you are even a real cop. I don't know if I or my vehicle "fits a description" and I may be a felony suspect until proven otherwise. I don't know if you are feeling particularly jumpy on this particular stop and you think I'm reaching for a weapon when I'm just getting my insurance papers.

    Maybe you've pulled me over because you just don't like whatever opinion my bumper stickers express. (Actually I don't have any bumper stickers, but I've heard of more than one case of that happening.)

    Maybe you are pulling me over for a perfectly legitimate reason; I'm going to get the ticket I have coming for whatever law I broke and we are both going to be gentlemen and treat each other respectfully. But the point is I don't know at the outset any more than you do, except you have already run my plate.

    I appreciate you comments.

  48. Emily says:

    Hubcap your awesome. The topics that you have brought up for discussion I to have thought about. Its nice to see there are others out there.

  49. Jack says:

    What a bunch of sniviling cry babies, 'yall paid $25,000 + to buy that clunker you are driving down the hiway and trying to emulate the guy in the TV ad ( that got you to buy your junker in the first place) flying down the road. Y'all drive too fast, drink too much and cry like a whining baby when you get caught and fail to take any of the blame saying it was everyone else's fault but your own for your stupid driving . What a bunch of whining assholes on this site.

  50. James Young says:

    Exactly why should we take "blame" for perfectly reasonable behavior? The issue is not that our behavior is "stupid driving" but that those who call it "stupid driving" are doing so because they make money from it.