Re: Ignition Interlocks

I have an Ignition Interlock device on my car. It was imposed by MVA after an alcohol related incident. It's a Lifesaver FC100. I have very little information about how this thing actually works and how MVA monitors it. I have searched the internet to find out how MVA comes up with violations and monitors the program. It must be hidden somewhere. I don't use mouth wash or anti-bacterial gel. Since I have had this thing (6 months now), I have registered a "Fail" (BAC > .025) in the morning and within 5 minutes passed it (meaning it was 0.00 BAC) by just changing the mouth piece or rinsing my mouth. I have failed a rolling retest after passing (0.00 BAC) when I started the car and then when it called for a rolling retest 5 minutes after the start, it failed, but it passed in 2 minutes when it requested a retest (I smelled gas from the car in front of me before the first rolling retest). I have been locked out once, no alcohol consumed, and 5 minutes later tried again (new mouth piece again) and blew a 0.00 BAC and it started. It's the scariest thing I have ever used.
I don't always use a new mouth piece and it won't fail. If these things are supposed to detect Blood Alcohol Content, then why do they fail if you have not been drinking?
I have learned that hair gel, hair spray, sun screen, gas fumes (now with 10% ethanol), and things that I am sure I am not aware of can set this thing off. I wait 15 minutes to leave my house after using these products as indicated on the brochure. You don't have to consume alcohol by any conventional means to have this record a failure in the data logger.
Has anyone else had problems like this?

Thanks

I was wondering about these devices. Can they tell the difference between human breath and plain old air? I was wondering how a can of compressed air would register on one of these things.

You have to hum while you blow and it detects temperature of breath. You literally have to wait until it warms up to blow. It's a pain in the butt, I'll be on it for almost another year, I can't wait to get rid of it. It's embarrassing and costly ($70.00/mo). The worst part is that you really never know what it's going to do. You don't have to have a drop of alcohol and it could fail for another reason. And you are responsible for every fail, even if you don't know why it failed. If you ever have to get one, get a handheld breathalyzer, with fuel sensor technology (same as they use for the interlock) and test yourself before ever blowing. Be aware of everything that you come into contact with (spray sunscreen, hair spray, hair gel, gasoline.. )
If you smell something strange going down the road, it could make it fail, get out a new mouth piece before blowing and cross your fingers.

Today I went into have the data log downloaded. I drove for 40 minutes and gave 4 samples during the trip and passed 0.00. While I waited in the waiting room with one of the employees, the IID was being calibrated by another employee. It took about 20 minutes. When he was finished he came out and I paid him. He left the keys in the car and the sample head on the seat with a mouth piece inserted. I had nothing to eat or drink while waiting for my monthly data load. I didn't use the bathroom or use any gels on my hands. I sat the entire time in a chair with another employee only. I went to start my car, gave a sample and it failed with a BAC of .06, according to the employee. This time I was there so no one could dispute that I drank NO ALCOHOL and didn't do ANYTHING wrong. They checked it again. I put a brand new mouthpiece on and blew. It passed. I made them watch me do it. The very first sample after the data download is a fail because of something that they did. They said that they would make a note of this and that it should be okay with MVA, but I have spoken to them before and they said a fail is a fail, it was not my fault. I called them when I got home to make sure I had the names of each employee correct for my records and asked how on earth could this happen. They said that some of the calibration fluid could have caused this. He wasn't sure. Great, now I have to be afraid to get the data downloaded! I am so sick of this device. It makes me think I am going to have a heart attack. During the holidays, the service light drained my battery. I called them and they said that I had to hot shot it to get it started. It started. On the highway, during rush hour, it requested a rolling retest and kept aborting for no reason. The horn went off and my lights started flashing. It continued to request a sample. For 3 miles it did this until finally the sample took and passed. My heart was palpitating. I drove directly to the shop and just as I arrived, it did it again. They replaced the sample head. This is the 3rd time I have had these "state of the art, undeniably accurate" IIDs replaced. This is not right! This is torture. I haven't drank, I can't use my regular hair products. I am petrified to get gas. I wouldn't wish one of these on my worst enemy.

So, the latest ignition interlock saga. Apparently, they have changed the MVA rules as following.
Instead of 50 tests a monitoring period, it is now 50 starts. If you don't have 50 starts you have to contact the "a violation is a violation" monitors and explain why, they will extend you 30 days anyway. Haven't experienced this one, but I am sure it's happening.
Also, now, when you arrive at your destination and it calls for a test, you can't turn your engine off, you have to provide a test. So if you are home and you dont' check to see if it's gearing up for a test, guess what? VIOLATION.
It used to be that aborts were not counted, but now they are. So if you are having trouble providing a sample (upper respiratory, not humming correctly, etc.) you got it, even if you do provide a sample within minutes of the request, VIOLATION.
They used to send you a letter telling you when you can have the device removed. You go get it removed and have your restriction removed. Now, you go in and do a download and wait for the MVA monitor to decide to send a letter saying it's okay to take you off. This could take weeks since "THEY ARE SOOO BUSY". Even if your last download shows no violations. So, theoretically, you are extended by default.
Here's the kicker. Now, for every violation, you get extended 30 more days. After 3 extentions you are removed from the program and the revokation/suspension is immediately imposed for the full length.
So now there are several people here that have been kicked out, lost their license, or have been extended. A good bit of them were probably not alcohol related, and they have suffered hardship.
Another issue, if your battery dies, you better take it to a qualified technician because that's a violation too. $$$$$ I got a violation letter about that, but I complained to the and adminstrative authority and his secretary gave me the information that I needed to contact MVA about problems and they made sure that this was not counted as a violation. They apologized for the inconveniences that I have experienced.
My advice to everyone is this: Get a breathalyzer so that you know if there are any residuals from anything that will make the darn thing go off. Stop and start your car as much as you can to get up to 50 starts. If you have any problems, see a mechanic even if it costs $$$. Make sure you have receipts for everything. If you get gasoline on your hands/body, wash it off before attempting to start (Ethanol 10). Don't play your radio too loud so that you don't hear the tones. Report issues about the monitors to their supervisors. Usually they won't tell you the appropriate person who is their supervisor, you have to do some MVA research.
Good luck everyone, I am done in 2 months and can't wait to have this monstrosity removed from my life.

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Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2009 05:24AM by CaliforniaCruising.

I HAVE INTERLOCK ON BOTH MY JEEP AND MY HARLEY,AND NEEDLESS TO SAY HAVE HAD ISSUES W/BOTH,BUT ONLY A COUPLE ON THE JEEP,NOW, THE BIKE A WHOLE DIFFERENT STORY!!I WAS VIOLATED BECAUSE THE SHOP THAT WORKS ON IT LEFT THE BATTERY UNHOOKED TO LONG,THEY ALSO ANOTHER TIME REHOOKED IT UP WRONG SO THAT EVERYTIME I TURNED IT OFF IT TURNED ALL POWER OFF,SO NEEDLESS TO SAY I HAVE GOTTEN SEVERAL VIOLATIONS, WHEN I VERY FIRST GOT IT THE INDICATER LIGHT DID'NT WARN ME IT WAS ALERTING ME TO BLOW,NOW THIS HAPPENED SEVERAL TIMES ,AND I CALLED THE 800 # WHILE ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD TOLD THEM I WANTED IT RECORDED,THE DATE AND TIME.SOMETIMES IT WORKED AND OTHERS NOT,AND THEN COME TO FIND OUT IT WAS WIRED HALF ASS'D AND I TOOK IT IN AND THEY HAD ANOTHER TEC. DO IT (ORIG.FIRED)AND PROBLEM SOLVED BASICLLY,OTHER THEN THE FACT THAT DO TO OTHERS ACTIONS I GOT IT WHERE THE SUN DONT SHINE.I HAVE NOT HAD I VIOLATION ON MY JEEP, NOT ONE ! I TAKE ALOT OF PRIDE WHEN I SAY THIS !! I HAVE NOT TOUCHED 1 DROP OR DRINK IN 6 YRS 11/28/08,I PAY 170.00 A MONTH TO BE F-N LEGAL AFTER 20YRS OF NOT,AND TO HAVE TO SUFFER BECAUSE OF THE "PROFESSIONAL TEC'S."MISTAKES DON'T MAKE ANY #%@% SENSE,AND O.OO READINGS, WELL I'M NOT DONE, I WANT TO KNOW HOW THIS S*#@ WORKS,IF YOU DONT HAVE A VEH.REG.TO YOURSELF AND THE PERSON IT BELONGS AGREED TO YR CONTRACT WE'RE COMMITED TO, TOOK IT FROM YOU TWO DAYS OR SO AFTER BEING RECALIBRATED AND SAYS ITS IN THE SHOP TAKES INTERLOCK OFF AND THROWS IT AT YOU,THEY REALLY NEED TO WORK OUT ALL THE CRAP AND GET IT DIALED IN BECAUSE IT'S REALLY JACKED UP

I have an IID in my car and read your comment and it is exactly what I am going thru.I have had the original one replced because it was defective for the first four months,and I was frustrated as hell.This last Saturday I had made a batch of potato salad and put some in a bowl to take to a friend,and I ate what was left on the spoon,and my IID locked out on me.I was so mad that I actually tried to remove the damn thing so I could get going down the road.I have had trouble when I eat bicuits and gravympot pies,and certain juices,etc.They dont give you a book on what not to eat.You cant even have air freshener in the car.They need to fine tune this idiotic device.I am about to just remove it and take my chances,since I have only been pulled over once and it was comming from a christmas party.I think that you should only have to have the device if you cause an accident or or cause bodily harm .The states are classifying social drinkers with real alcoholics and making a killing off of it.I have not drank any alcohol since 12-01-07 and I am still being punished .Its overkill on the states to do this.I live in Washington state and it doesnt matter if its your first time or what the bac says,everyone has to go to 200 A.A.s and 2years of Intensive outpatient treatment and this is absurd.I have actually thought of moving out of this state because you feel like a crimminal that cant win for losing.So, I know what youre going thru and I am glad that I found a web site of people going thru the same thing.Good luck.Cathycathymc3@comcast.net

I know what you mean. So many people are being punished with this. Overly punished. Just recently, after having a new battery put in, I didn't drive my car for 3 days, the new battery went dead. This device is draining it. We are scheduled for a week at the beach, now we have to take 2 cars because if it sits without driving it for more than 2 days, it kills your battery, causing a disconnect violation, and here is Maryland, regardless of what it is, a violation is a violation. Extended 30 days, 1 of 3 counted against you. What kind of unit are you using? I am using the Lifesaver.

I have a IID brand called Intoxalock from Consumer Safety Technology, Inc. As of this date, I have had the unit for 12 months. I have not really experience a lot of problems with it, but I have been frustrated quite a few times.

This ii the first could blog where I have found other discussing this topic. Although I am thankful to be able to drive again, I have also found that after my experience with both the DUI’s and having the IID installed that I do not drive as much as before. I am fortunate because I work from home and can run errands with other members of the family. I just don’t feel like driving anywhere because the device is such a hassle.

It changes a lot of your driving habits, patterns and uses. I have stopped using any kind of drive-thru because, sure enough, the device wants a “rolling retest” while you are at the window. I once slowing rolled into the car in front of me, just tapping her, because I was preoccupied with the device and it’s demand for a blow test.

You may have to learn to change you own oil and enjoy washing your own car again, because try to take you car to an oil change or car wash and expect them to blow into your device (let alone asking them to learn how to do it). It’s not from embarrassment, trust me, I got used to blowing in it in view of other people after a while. It’s just most places like valet parking, car washes, quick oil changes, and such are just off limits because the places don’t want to deal with it.

Apparently, there are about 3,000 drivers in California that have these devices. The statistic show that only 20% of eligible people actually get the units installed. Perhaps because of the cost. Not only do you have higher insurance premiums, but the device costs about $60 a month.

But it can cost more. At first I had problems with the unit, not hearing it want a rolling restart and missed the test. Then the unit “locks out” and you have to get is replaced at a cost of $100. The company also dings you on shipping. The thing always seems to tell you it needs to be recalibrated on a Thursday, so in order to not have to worry and wait until the last minute, you have to request overnight or 2-day shipping which they charge $25 to $45 for. So that can start adding up if it happens often.

They don’t tell you when you have to have it serviced, you are suppose to tell them. Even though they have the computers and such, this is probably (rigged) so you have to pay the higher shipping fees.

I have actually had to have my car towed to the service center twice. So that is not very convenient or cheap. This was because the unit was sent but lost in transit. Once your unit locks out there is (apparently no emergency override or) nothing than can be done except to have the car towed.

I have not experience any unusual BAC readings except after using mouthwash. That just means I can’t start the car and have to rinse out my mouth and try again after a few minutes. I have stopped trying to drink or eat anything in the car because when the rolling restart is requested, you can’t have any residual liquid or food in your mouth or it makes it hard to give it a good breath sample.

Now the rolling restart is what drives me crazy. I can understand the device asking for a sample a few minutes after starting the car to try and avoid someone else starting the car for you. But that can be fooled but simply starting the car, staying parked while the engine runs, and then having your accomplish do the first rolling restart test.

The other tests on my device seem to be random. There are times when it asks for a retest every 5 minutes. They say it asks for 4 an hour, but it seems like more. I think I would go crazy if I drove the car for more than an hour with that device. It seems to go off every 10 minutes.

Now what is stupid is thinking someone sober would blow in it for you while you were driving. Why would they be letting a drunk drive them? Why wouldn’t they just drive? Well, we know drunks and enablers do stupid things, so I’ll just say I guess they have all bases covered. But the rolling restarts are now fun if you plan a road trip or are in daily commuter traffic.

Well I received a notice from the CA DMV telling me that my license is revoked because Consumer Safety Technology, Inc (CTS) reported that I am not in compliance with the IID program.

I contacted the DMV and they said that CTS reported that I “tampered” with the device and that I am no longer eligible for the program and that I can get my license in 6 months, but it will be revoked in the meantime.

They could not tell me what I supposedly tampered with. I contacted CTS and asked them and they said that I “bypassed” the unit according the DMV IID Program rules. That I would have to take up the matter with the DMV.

I asked them what tampering or bypassing I did and this is what they sent me:

===================

Mr. XXX
5/6/09 – 3 consecutive timed out rolling retests
5/6/09 – 4:42pm the vehicle was started with BAC .000
4:52pm the vehicle was turned off on the rolling retest requests, the unit continued to ask for a sample
5:06pm the 3 consecutive rolling retests timed out, no sample was provided.

Bypass is defined by CA DMV IID Program as “failing to take a rolling retest 3 consecutive times. Also, failing to take and pass a rolling retest prior to turning off the vehicle’s engine. The bypass that occurred on 5/6/09 falls within both of these definitions.

========================

Well the ““failing to take a rolling retest 3 consecutive times” has happened before and resulted in the $100 lockout I mentioned in my previous post, not a revocation action.

But you would think tamper or bypass would mean that someone actively tried to fool or rewire the device to get around blowing into it? What happened was I went to the store for 10 minutes and when I returned got out of the car and probably didn’t hear the thing wanting a rolling retest. So I am getting my license revoked because I didn’t hear the thing and my engine was off and I was away from the car. Not because I had a BAC while driving or tried to MacGyver the dumb thing.

I contacted the DMV again to see what could be done, but besides getting the run around between CTS and the DMV. Each blaming each other for the cause of the revocation. The DMV says they don’t make the rules for the IID and CTS saying the DMV makes the definitions for bypass and tamper.

Just taking to the people in Sacramento at the DMV is enough to drive you crazy. First it’s hard to get a property constructed English sentence out of those folks and they act completely hostile to you over the phone. (Is it any wonder California’s vote NO on bonds and taxes that would give the state workers any more pay or more people?)

It’s a mixed blessing though. I can’t do much about it since the bureaucracy is so convoluted and no one at the DMV seems to know what’s going on or how to help, even if they cared to help. CTS just says they are following DMV rules and the DMV says CTS makes the rules. (Bangs head on wall).

Personally, I do not recommend CTS or the Intoxalock from my experience. If I lived in a city with better public transpiration I would have never had the unit installed. The cost for a year has come to over $1000 with the various mystery fees as well as the towing and additional cost for maintenance (I have to have a mobile care repair guy come and change my oil and fix things).

I am so sorry to hear that, California Cruisin. My question would be, Isn't the device supposed to make an alarm if the rolling retest is not performed.

[www.marylandmva.com]
This was on MVAs IID page.
Quest: I shut the vehicle off and the horn went off
Answer: This will happen if the device asks for a running retest and you turn off the vehicle. If the device asks for a retest, you must take the test. If you turn off the vehicle without giving the test the device will record a rolling retest refusal and the horn will go off.

If you have a National Interlock company there or anyone that has Lifesaver Interlocks, I would suggest that. I have tried the other kind Smart Start (makes you blow first wait a few seconds then hum or it aborts you, Draeger makes you suck and hum, and found them extremely troubling. Lifesavers let you hum and blow at the same time when you it requests a test and doesn't make you wait or suck air back.

I have had issues where it seemed to ask for alot of rolling retests, and it became annoying. I noticed that it also drains my battery, if that happens you will get a power disconnect violation and that may be what happened to you. I recently noticed that the power light was on when I first entered my car, then the battery went very low and wouldn't start. I called my provider and they said that there may be a handset issue. To have it swapped.

Have you reported this to the Iowa Attorney General and the Iowa Better Business Bureau? They can't help others in our situation unless the word gets out. I do not believe the DMV V.C. code was carved out to interpret bypass as something inadvertent- it should be a willful/deliberate act of tampering or bypass of device- one would reasonably think that the aim behind the bypassing/tampering rule is to prevent anyone who tries to circumvent the court/DMV restriction and get away with driving absent the monitoring... why would the DMV punish you for running in the store for 10 minutes and accidentally setting it off from time to time as you learn how to work this testy device. People are getting revocations for behavior that is not willful nor wrong and the I.I.D. providers are getting money from rushing replacement devices/early contract termination/removal of devices. It is suspect- please report this online to BBB and D.A. Consumer Protection Division. Let your voice be heard by someone who can possibly help!



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2009 10:44AM by intoxalocksucks.

@ Intoxalocksucks, I believe and in many government lobbying (for contracts or laws) that these IID providers wrote the suggested rules for the state and the State of California adopted them. The bureaucrats don’t think the detail through, they just want to pass MADD friendly legislation and then let the inter-clock companies give them the rules to include in the vehicle code.

I agree with you would think the DMV doesn’t include a rule that would punish you unless you explicitly attempted to bypass or tamper wit the unit. In my case I did neither. But here is the verbatim DMV code and you can see how stupid it is:
--------------

(1) ( )6 A combination of failing or not taking the ignition interlock device rolling retest three consecutive times.
(2) ( )6 An incidence of failing or not taking the ignition interlock device rolling retest, when not followed by an incidence of passing the ignition interlock rolling retest prior to turning off the vehicle’s engine.
-------------

Note #2, which is apparently what I did (explained in my June 18, 2009 06:14PM post above)
The device always beeps every time you stop and it usually is just telling you that you have2 minutes to restart the car. So I ignore it. I guess my violation was after going to the store for 10 minutes I came home and juts got out of the car and didn’t realize to wanted a rolling retest. So since that wasn’t performed, my license is being revoked, the IID has to be removed at a cost of $40 and I have to pay a $50 early termination fee (just like you said).

The relief is that I don’t have to deal with CTS anymore or their piled on charges and long waits to get through to customer service. Their rigged and unexplainable fees.

If you do business with CTS Intoxalock **DO NOT GIVE THEM A CREDIT OR DEBIT CARD** you will no have any control of when or how much they charge you. I had to call almost every month to have them explain the charges. That $60 a month usually turns into $110 to $150 a month with their crazy mystery fees, surcharges, penalties, late fees, shipping fees, and other fees. DO NOT GIVE THEM A CREDIT OR DEBIT CARD. Only pay them monthly and dispute their crazy charges, don’t let them take advantage of you. They try to bait you to use a credit card on file for a little rebate. Don’t do it, put yourself in the driver seat and control them, otherwise they will just pick you pocket the entire time you have to have the IDD. I would say my cost average $100 a month, not $2 a day like they falsely advertise. That doesn’t include my towing charges because their technology is too stupid to have an over-ride code that could extend the time but still give you the breath test. How come they can’t think of something like that instead of locking you out. My car had to be towed 62 miles one time to get to a nearby service center because they lame technology doesn’t have an over-ride that their service people could use or that they could give you and *still* get a breath sample.

This technology is still cheap, inaccurate, expensive and a major hassle.

I have a question, I live in washington and made a stupid decision cause I'm an idiot to drink on a friday night, i had a beer and a half and a shot and a half no later than 120a.m. i stayed up all night n just watched tv and i hadnt eaten anything all night, when i went out and blew i registered "fail" at 520a.m... i blew 2 more consecutive fails following cause i thought there's no way i have alcohol still in me.. i went out at 630 and blew again... fail... now i trip out.. its been 6 days and i dunno how this stuff works, i fucked up and am stupid for doing it but... do they instantly retirve the data that i failed or is it when i go in and get my monthly checks that thy will find out? plz help me im kinda worried about it.. and ya should be..

Here is my suggestion, first, GET A PORTABLE BREATHALYZER AND NEVER BLOW INTO THAT THING WITHOUT CHECKING. I can't emphasize this more. I have two. The PT500 is the same fuel sensor technology as the interlock so it's dependable. I have had others but they fluctuated in their readings. Second, drink alot of water after consuming any alcohol. Yes, when you do your data download, it will be a violation and you'll pay the penalty. Get a look at the data log reading from the Interlock company that you use. Write down the information, this is what will be used against you.

The laws on failing the IID BAC level test must vary from state to state , from court to court, case to case and penalty to penalty.

For example, I won’t get into any trouble for failing my Intoxalock start test because I am not under any probation or restriction “not to drink.” I can only not operate the vehicle with a .025 or higher reading. Even though I am not suppose to have any measurable amount of alcohol to drive, I am still allowed to drink.

The .025 on the Intoxalock is a threshold to permit for other things like orange juice, mouthwash and other things that might show BAC. In fact, most of the time I have failed the test was because I had used mouthwash while grooming before heading off somewhere. Mouthwash has given it readings of .50 sometimes and that would be a coma or death in reality. So I usually just go back inside and wash my mouth out with water and in a few minutes my former failure for high BAC is a pass.

Anyway, since I was not allowed to operate the vehicle, I’m not in any trouble or violation. Of course that would be much different for a rolling re-test. You fail a rolling retest and I guess you are done with the program and might be called into court because that IS a violation of your probation.

Now some people get formal probation and that might be different in that any drinking at all might get you a probation violation. Or the judge may have ordered no drinking at anytime until your probation is done even if it’s informal probation.

So there is no universal answer on this topic. There can be many different scenarios. Though I think that IID_MD has the best plan if you never want to register a fail. Test on another personal device first. (Or don’t drink)

Here in Kalifornia, The New Republik, many jurisdictions are making 3 and 4 time offenders wear a an Alcohol Detecting Ankle Bracelet. It detects alcohol from the skin, sweat and pores. It transmits this information to a office that will report any alcohol to the court or probation officer. More sophisticated ones have built-in GPS so the can find you if the want to pick you up for a violation or see if you have been visiting place you are not allowed to like bars. (They use the GPS ones on Domestic Violence Offenders who also had alcohol cases to make sure they obey restraining orders.)

So the IID doesn’t seem so bad as having Big Brother strapped to your ankle for several years.

My fiance and I have had our whole world changed by our association with this company... and not for the positive. I had an I.I.D. requirement and installed it on our shared car. Intoxalock was on the list of authorized I.I.D. providers on the California DMV website. They had a brand new technician and ours was the first device he has ever installed for them. He took over 4 hours to install it and said he didn't know what he was doing- unquote. During the installation the horn was blaring and he was cussing while trying to put it in the car- a fairly complex (I'm told by mechanics) newer Cadillac . The car has a delay before it shuts off the battery- so the lights turn off after you have walked away from the car or the radio can play with no key in the car, for e.g. Well, I guess the machine still runs during this time- he didn't tell us this... couldn't show us how to breathe into it.. we had no orientation for this thing... We had episodes of RUNNING blocks back to the car to shut off the device because Rolling Retests would trigger- AFTER waiting the requisite two minute countdown... and we got violations for those! One night we were asleep in the house and the horn went off in the middle of the night 3-4 hours after we had been inside the house because while we were asleep rolling retests presumably had been triggered after we removed key/locked the car... so eventually the horn was triggered after the machine requested a Rolling Retest again and again... Came out in our pajamas along with other neighbors thinking the car was being stolen and totally baffled. Another violation! We told Intoxalock and they blamed us "must be partial key forward... (no key in car though..hmmm...)" So, we ended up having to tow the car to the installer's for a new device $$$$ and guess what's next? The tow truck driver put the cable on the car wrong and bent our tie bar making it undrivable! So, we bring it to installer and put in the new device but on a practically undrivable car at installers shop- allignment ruined. Authorized installer advises us to go right to our regular service shop "b/c he can't fix it there"- doesn't remove device, doesn't report the problem to Intoxalock. What he should have done if he was better trained by Intoxalock was to advise us to fix the car BEFORE we put the new device on the car so mechanic wouldn't accidentally set it off. And this is something no one thinks about on a Friday afternoon dealing with a damaged car and a fresh insurance claim and we are all newbies to this albatross...

So, we drive it as best we can the whole 4 minutes to our regular shop- emergency mode- our only car... manager of our regular shop promises they won't move the car again at the shop to avoid setting off the machine/needing to blow in it at all- we warned him about device. Tragically, a mechanic does start car while at shop being serviced. Horn goes off and he panics and shuts off battery- doesn't tell us till we pick it up 3 days later. New device needed AGAIN- we explain on phone what happened- mechanic's custody, inadvertent. 155 Errors logged. Countless Rolling Retests missed.

Intoxalock takes our order for new device and our $$$ but guess what? They promptly report us to DMV for non-compliance because of the log errors- DMV immediately suspends license for ANOTHER YEAR because Intoxalock says we tampered/bypassed new device- violation V.C. Sect 23575(F)(2). (They checked that box on the DMV form- I looked up the form online)Yet, no willful non-compliance and their subjective knowledge of the circumstances of what happened. No drinking/driving either, of course. We submit documentation to Intoxalock immediately including mechanic reimbursement check for new device(!they paid for it as an apology/admission!- a Cadillac authorized dealership/repair shop incidentally and place of purchase- not some fly by night repair place)/dates of service that match log errors. Mechanic freely admits they cut battery. Give them repair invoice EVERYTHING. Even receipt for an Enterprise rental car we needed while ours was in shop! Our regular repair shop manager and their own installer are willing to talk to Intoxalock on our behalf but they don't want to speak to either. Don't care, won't rescind- "too late." Say not sufficient evidence and they are legally obliged to report any errors that appear on log to DMV- must forward those errors BUT refuse to pass along the scanned documentary evidence we had supplied to them with clear proof of why they ocurred which would likely exonerate us of any wrongdoing. So, now we pay more $ to remove device early. $1200 and 3 devices in 3+ months and only harmed for the efforts! Probably made more $ this way, ultimately...

Now we have to remove device asap on DMV orders, we decide to go to another Intoxalock installer in another town and the 2 mechanics (who tell us they put in about 5 Intoxalock devices daily) stand over the hood & LITERALLY LAUGH OUT LOUD in our presence at how it was wired in by first mechanic and say they've "never" seen it wired that way and it sounds like it was wired wrong from what happened. Intoxalock won't speak to installer to confirm- literally hung up when we tried to pass them the phone at the shop at that moment- say it's too late now b/c they've already submitted the non-compliance form. Won't talk to first installer who corroborates our info. Our initial installer told us he will never work with them again because of how they mistreated us. They wouldn't listen to him when he tried to call on our behalf. Won't speak to us except to send us to collections- say it's closed account- very very very very rude. We have filed with BBB and DA's office and multiple calls to DMV in California and Automotive Claims. So far, no license, can't get to jobs in this recession without a license- my four year probation was even over and wasn't even a court ordered device- it was DMV mandated. DMV has no review/appeal process and will not accept evidence from the driver- only from the I.I.D. provider- and they won't forward it along- the initial Installer even called DMV on our behalf to explain about the tie rod incident and confirm the dates matching up on our paperwork from our regular shop but DMV said must be on Intoxalock stationery-call must be from I.I.D. provider not from Installer. I spent so much $/time on this to make our lives better in tough times and it ended up much worse. In my opinion, the bottom line is that this suspension was their punishment for getting car serviced before giving them notice before beginning the emergency repair- they require you to contact them first- "those are the rules and "rules are rules," they scolded us. This despite the fact their authorized third party agent/"skilled tech" told us to take it to our shop (and one listens to mechanics)but didn't inform them nor remove the device (b/c he was new, I feel-didn't know s.o.p. and neither did we- who knew - some footnote in their manual that ruins your life???). So, their idea of "tampering" or "bypassing" the device includes a situation where you have a mechanic touch the shared car without telling them first- even in an emergency and even if the installer suggests it. The injustice is that this is not the DMV's definition from what I've researched (here, the mechanic did the tampering not us and it was accidental and not authorized by us...) yet they aren't getting the full story of what happened ...

What I learned: 1) e-mail/fax any problems re device/installation/errors on log and save a copy/transmittal sheet for your file- they refused to give the phone logs to us later so calls aren't going to help you as documentation later on. 2) Don't let a mechanic touch the car till you e-mail them first getting authorization - get specifics of who said it was o.k. and get it in writing if you can in case the mechanic slips up. 3) Try to choose an I.I.D. provider that is doing business in the same state you are in. 4) ask the installer how many devices they have installed and drive as far as necessary to get a more experienced installer to put the device in for you/teach you how to use it.

p.s. After the smoke cleared I called all of the other I.I.D. providers on the CA DMV website list of authorized providers and asked each of their reps what the s.o.p. is if a mechanic interrupts/bypasses the device while vehicle is in their custody. Most of them told me that they give the customer a chance to proactively explain the errors before they submit the non-compliance report. Every rep I spoke with told me that if you can prove car was in the shop when the event of non-compliance occurred that everything is fine and it won't be considered tampering/bypass and won't be reported as such.



RELEVANT SECTIONS OF DMV V.C. CODE:

(2) Pursuant to subdivision (g), the Department of Motor Vehicles shall immediately terminate the restriction issued pursuant to Section 13352 and shall immediately suspend or revoke the privilege to operate a motor vehicle of a person who attempts to remove, bypass, or tamper with the device, who has the device removed prior to the termination date of the restriction, or who fails three or more times to comply with any requirement for the maintenance or calibration of the ignition interlock device ordered pursuant to Section 13352. The privilege shall remain suspended or revoked for the remaining period of the originating suspension or revocation and until all reinstatement requirements in Section 13352 are met.

(g) A person whose driving privilege is restricted by the Department of Motor Vehicles pursuant to Section 13352 shall arrange for each vehicle with an ignition interlock device to be serviced by the installer at least once every 60 days in order for the installer to recalibrate the device and monitor the operation of the device. The installer shall notify the Department of Motor Vehicles if the device is removed or indicates that the person has attempted to remove, bypass, or tamper with the device, or if the person fails three or more times to comply with any requirement for the maintenance or calibration of the ignition interlock device.




...So, where is the "attempt" to circumvent, one wonders..."


... and I found this on the DMV website regarding definitions of terms:

• Tampering with an ignition interlock system - An individual tampering with an ignition interlock system commits a misdemeanor of the third degree and upon conviction shall be sentenced to pay a fine of not less than $300 nor more than $1000 and to undergo imprisonment for not more than 90 days. "The term "tampering" in addition to any physical act which is intended to alter or interfere with the proper functioning of an ignition interlock system required by law shall include attempting to circumvent or bypass or circumventing or bypassing an ignition interlock system by using another individual to provide a breath sample, providing a breath sample for the purpose of bypassing an ignition interlock system required by law."


So, I interpret the above as:
You need a physical act
You need intent to cause it
Or you need to have someone else deliberately bypass/tamper with the device & you must have intended for them to do so

How does a mechanic disabling a battery while vehicle is in his shop tantamount to an intent to bypass/tamper when the mechanic said he would not touch the device, never disconnected device itself (only disconnected the battery because of horn) AND without my permission????



Edited 15 time(s). Last edit at 07/08/2009 11:20AM by intoxalocksucks.

Also, it's a good idea to contact the Governor's office with your complaint. They were very helpful to me. They, then, directed me to the appropriate people to talk to about this issue. The service providers wont be helpful. The one I use tries to tell me that they can't give me a copy of the data download, even though it affects me directly. They can, but they would incriminate the system. I saw a data download once for April 2009 that said
Power Disconnect Violation Dec 31, 1997 - HA! the unfailable system. Needless to say, the devices don't always work, the software isn't accurate and the people trying to do the right thing get punished.
Because MVA or DMV is a state adminstrative agency, it is subject to the same rules as any other adminstrative agency, if something that they do creates unjust hardship, the appropriate actions should occurr.
Don't be a victim, fight for your rights to be treated fairly.

Sorry to hear of your problems. Te thing is that CTS used to contract with Circuit City and their vast network of stores and great install shops that had guys that knew how to install alarm systems and things all day long. These are just like alarm systems in hat they lock out the ignition.

But when Circuit City went bankrupt, CTS lost that network of installers and is using all kinds of mom and pop shops that don't specialize in car alarms and such. Most of all, CTS is cheap and most car alarm installers are not interested in the installs for $30 or the recalibrations for $10 or whatever. Since most good alarm shops are banging out killer amps, audio systems, DVD in the headrest, GPS, Sirus Radio, Lo-Jack and other high margin items.

So the interlocks from CTS are being installed by newbie’s. Plus, these things are not installed everyday or even every week so the learning curve is high.

1) ( )6 A combination of failing or not taking the ignition interlock device rolling retest three consecutive times.
(2) ( )6 An incidence of failing or not taking the ignition interlock device rolling retest, when not followed by an incidence of passing the ignition interlock rolling retest prior to turning off the vehicle’s engine.
===========

That is the law they interpret. The law is you are responsible for the actions of others with your device. So if the mechanics messes it up, then you are responsible according the DMV.

The *problem* here is that the DMV bureaucracy is slowly taking over functions from the courts and imposing penalties without ANY DUE PROCESS. There is no way to get an appeal, hearing or review. Even a Superior Court Judge cannot over rule the peons at the DMV.

The DMV is a reckless, careless, unorganized, pathetically bloated organization that wields the power to deprive people of rights to drive a car and earn or living or care take for someone.

I had the same HELL trying to discuss a matter with the CA DMV and had some person I could not even understand, because she did not speak English, and I had to ask for a superior who argued with me.

I thought the DMV was making progress, but the people at the offices in Sacramento can hide behind their far away locations and not pick up the phones. They are a bunch of obnoxious, unhelpful, rude assholes.

I finally gave up and hung up with DMV but not before telling the rude supervisor that “it was people like him that promoted me to VOTE NO on every possible Proposition or Bond that would fund their jobs, raises or pensions. That I hoped they all lost their jobs because they are all inconsiderate lazy welfare collectors with a time clock on state property. They are not interested in helping people and they certainly feel some personal trip on not helping DUI drivers, even though we have paid our dues. They just treat us like trash. Well it’s time to treat them like trash and I don’t care if they CLOSE THE DMV for good.

I ENDORSE A NATIONAL DRIVERS LICENSE and abolish the state DMV’s. People move around a lot more and the laws from state to state need to be consolidated and standardized so that we can go from one state to another without a nightmare with the DMV and stop each state from the “brinkmanship” the MADD lobby is playing all states against each other. MADD gets laws changed in each state in a rotation to try to get one state to claim they are the “toughest on drunk driving”. The DRIVERS LICENSE NEEDS TO BE FEDERALIZED. I know it sounds like more government but nothing can be worse that the DMV.

I agree whole heartly. Our MVA is not different. They get their co-workers to say that they are busy, don't call back. And when they do talk to you, they treat you like a lying criminal. I document everything. I went to an attorney, contacted the governor's office, gave them all of my information and then I finally got an email from the Gov office and admin at MVA. Apparently, the Gov's office is very concerned about how this works. If word gets out that this system is as flawed as it is, it could fail, then the revenue would be gone.
What's gonna end up happening is people are going to be revoked and drive without a valid license. It is going to create havic everywhere. These interlocks are not as accurate and valid as every provider claims. They do yield false positives, they do have electrical issues, and the data log can be wrong. I have proof. I keep everything. This interlock has almost given me a nervous breakdown. And the thing is, it's not because I have attempted to drink and drive. Isn't that what they are for? I feel sorry for anyone who has to go through this hell. I am actually counting that days down to the end of hell, 54 days left, currently. Even if I don't have to drive, I drive so that my battery wont die. Wasting gas.
I started this thread because I couldn't find anywhere to get support for this nightmare.
Any help I can provide, feel free.

The concept of the Ignition Interlock is fundamentally good. The implementation of this program however is flawed.

My experience at least has not been pleasant and is down right miserable. I feel that I am doing the “right thing” by obeying the laws and the program. I performed all the requirements for getting the DMV to approve my restricted license; complete an 18 month alcohol education and counseling course, attended the MADD Impact Panel, do not drive while suspended, acquired auto insurance and the SR-22, and then installed the device.

Since then, my experience has been to have to return the unit several times earlier than normal because of the “no doing the rolling retest 3 times in a row.” Well first problem I have is that I am hard of hearing and tone deaf. I hardly heard the device when it beeps. Even if you do not have a hearing issue, this means you can never listen to the stereo or drive with your window down or sun roof open because the ambient noise will drown out the like mouse squeaks of the unit. So I have been dings about 5 times for twice the $60 recalibration amount when this failure to retest had happened.

Here is a typical day with the IID. Yesterday I was driving my friend home from a medical appointment. At 11:15 I do the blow test and depart from the hospital and about 4 minutes later, I have to take the rolling retest again. About another two miles or 6 minutes I have to take the rolling retest again. Just as we get to the driveway at her house, I have to do a 4th rolling retest. This all in about a 20 minutes drive from the hospital.

That is like blowing into the device every 5 minutes. They says its random, but that often is ridiculous. They are assuming people are driving around in their car with a can of beer or a pint drinking. Random should be random or be smart enough to begin doing the random tests less often when you never violate. How in the hell does someone get drunk in 10 minutes anyway?

I can never take a long drive anywhere because it’s ridiculous. If I took a long trip I’d be blowing in that thing 50 times. It’s dangerous too. Just as bad or worse than talking or texting on a cell phone and IT CAN’T WAIT. I freak out when it starts beeping because I don’t want to get dinged for $150 again. SO that means I’m basically freaking out every time and everywhere I drive.

The thing is, if someone is such a hopeless alcoholic that they have to drink while they drive in their car **they should never be given a drivers license again! ** I think 90% or more of the people who got DUI’s were leaving a bar, club or party and were no drinking in their cars also.

Maybe the rules should be that if people who are found DUI and OPEN CONTAINER will not be eligible for an IDD so they can slacken some of the crazy rules for the other 90% of the people who never drink or drank in their cars.

Honestly, even being convicted of DUI myself, I would be the first to agree that hard core, chronic alcoholics that have been busted for multiple DUI’s at high BAC’s and OPEN CONTAINER should NOT BE IN THE IID program. Because they make the rules for the lowest common denominator.

I don’t commute or have to do a lot of driving since I work from home in computer services. I can’t even imagine the nightmare these current devices are for dial commuters, salespeople, delivery people or anyone else who is on the road for more than an hour a day. I’m usually exhausted and embarrassed too much to even have the energy to drive anywhere. So I don’t drive much anyway and know that I will definitely drive more when it’s removed.

What is really happening when they permit these IID companies to gouge people and make the rules so strict that driving is an absolute pain in the ass, is they encourage more people to drive without these devices, drive without a valid license which usually means without insurance.

California is a car state. It’s built around the roads not public transport. People are going to drive no matter what to keep a roof over their head and feed their families. So if the State, the People and MADD want this program to work, they need to take a good hard look at and listen to people like us because it’s not going to work if it keeps going in this direction.

I know people that I meet in the 18 month program who are driving without licenses and insurance because they have to. They have to get to the program, get to AA meeting and get to their jobs. Not addressing the IID issues is only going to make matters worse. More laws

Of special interest to California motorists:

New California DMV laws regarding IID’s effective July 1, 2009

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Administrative Per Se (APS) Zero Tolerance Law
Effective January 1, 2009
It is unlawful for a person who is on probation for a DUI offense to operate a motor vehicle at any time with a BAC of 0.01% or greater. Violation(s) of the law will result in a 1-year suspension of your driving privilege. Refusal or failure to complete a preliminary alcohol screening (PAS) or chemical test while on probation will result in a 2-year revocation of your driving privilege. Two or more prior DUI convictions within ten years will result in a 3-year revocation of your driving privilege. You will not get a restricted license for any of the above violations.
Effective July 1, 2009
If you have a prior DUI conviction(s) and are convicted of driving with a suspended driver license, you will be required to install an Ignition Interlock Device (IID) for up to three years depending on your driving record.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Also new laws being consider for the courts in DUI cases:

A California Assemblyman has already introduced a new bill (AB 91) in January 2009 which is backed by the California Highway Patrol and which is believed would reduce the ability of convicted drunk drivers from driving while drunk and getting into accidents, especially those which cause wrongful deaths or personal injury to others.

The bill would require the installation of an ignition interlock device (IID) on any vehicle owned or operated by anyone previously convicted of a drunk driving (DUI) offense.

Presently, the courts have the discretion of whether to require the IID for first time and repeat DUI offenders. The bill would require the court to mandate the IID for such DUI first time and repeat offenders.

=============================================

What does this mean?

If you are on formal or informal probation for a DUI in California and you get caught driving with any measurable amount of alcohol you will lose your license. Of course this was already a probation requirement, but this law make it clear and enforceable. If you are DUI while suspended, your car will be impounded and sold.

Even if you are sober, if you are driving on a suspended license while on probation for DUI, you will have to get an IID device when you are eligible to be licensed again.

The other changes are that judges will have to order an IID for 2nd and 3rd DUI offenders as well as be able to order an IID for a 1st time offender when the BAC is .15 or higher.

THESE NEW RULES MEAN THERE ARE GOING TO BE A LOT MORE PEOPLE BEING REQUIRED TO GET AN IID.

Then, just my opinion, there will be alot more people having nervous breakdowns in CA because I havent met one person, not one, that has said they thought the IID did what i was supposed to do, was completely accurate and yielded valid results, and that they didnt mind being on it in order to drive. I think there should be IID self-help support groups around the nation to help people cope with the emotional damage that these devices and their regulators cause. Just like AA, there should be IID_A, people who have to be on IIDs, who are suffering emotionally and physically from the stress they cause.
The one I have just killed battery number 2 on a 2007 Honda Civic Hybrid.

Wouldn't it be a better and less subjective test (considering no one can know what your BAC feels like except you) to just install a gaming machine in the car? Then you'd just have to play Grand Theft Auto or something to demonstrate your sobriety. Wouldn't that be better and make more sense? Except that they probably couldn't have you do it while you're driving!


But seriously, I'm just hearing about these infernal things because a friend of mine may end up with one; that is, if he's lucky. Otherwise, he'll just do without a license for a couple of years. He didn't do anything wrong except a seriously minor traffic violation but was then given a breathalyzer test. Can we assume that device the police use is at least as unreliable as these things that you all are complaining about? In what kind of country can you be so severly punished without actually having done anything wrong? Have people decided to finally completely throw the Constitution out? It appears that in a lot of states, they have. I'll bet this issue would get some attention if gun owners were robbed of their weapons because they did something that put them in a class with others people who were perceived as a risk. But it's exactly the same thing. Just watch out NRA members, you're next. Your weapons will be confiscated because something you do resembles something someone else did which resulted in a crime. This is a choice we could make as a society but it may be too late. The choice has already been made. The only way to reverse it is to vote in politicians who will fix it and vote out those who promote it.

It sounds like the national driver's license debate is already over. From the information and license blocking they already do, it sounds like we almost have a nationalized ID/Driver's license already. The law is like this: precedents sneak in like cockroaches or snakes and before you know it, you're infested. Democrats and Republicans don't care about this sort of thing because it's not idealogical enough so only third party candidates could probably do anything about it but it's risky; who in their right mind is going to duke it out with MADD in an actual election? The craziest thing is, why should they have to? You can always tell when a business or gov't is being run horribly when people of good will can't get along; in this case, people who value freedom, enjoy driving and want to protect our children from harm. The fact that a person would have to pick one, or take sides in this is a function of the mindless application of rules by bureaucrats coupled with their own sick passive-aggression, which is why they treat you they way that they do.

May we all drive carefully and live to see better, more rational days in the future.

Nobody will disagree that drunk driving sucks and it kills a lot of people.

With that, most of the harsher laws and punishment are lobbied for by MADD. They bombard lawmakers with letters and demands. They sit in the courtrooms watching DUI cases and watching what punishments the judge hands down. If the judge is in an elected office, the judges are mindful of these activists.

It’s not too big a problem where people have good access to public transportation, they have no excuse to drink and drive. But in California, driving is a lifestyle and necessary to basically do anything.

The fact is most people who get their license suspended drive anyway, albeit much less and more carefully. The statistics show that only 20% of people eligible to use an IID actually install one. The rest of the people drive without a license and, if they keep their nose clean, don’t get caught.

Of course, in California, if you get caught driving on a suspended license (due to a DUI) you will usually get some jail time, more fins and your car will be impounded and SOLD. So if you do it park the Mercedes in the garage and buy a clunker.

Expect laws to keep getting more severe as time goes on. It’s also a very big REVENUE generator for municipalities and criminal lawyers love DUI’s. They rarely take a case to trial and they get $3,000 to $5,000 for just accepting a case. It’s gravy work for lawyers because 98% of the time, they plea bargain you to the minimum penalties.

>>So if you do
> it park the Mercedes in the garage and buy a
> clunker.

Good advice/interesting post!

I live in Texas, and had an Lifesafer Fc100 installed in my car almost 7 weeks ago due to my bond with the arraingnment judge. I have never had a DWI, and was not driving my car. I was at a bar, and a guy (that had an interest in me), followed me out to my car in the parking lot. After telling him "NO", he took my keys, told me I had had too much to drink, and called 911. I finally (after a struggle) managed to get in my car, just to get away from this creep. I didn't start the car, but was sitting in my car when the cops arrived. I hired an attorney at $2,500, and nothing has been filed - STILL. Since that night, I have been a total homebody have not doing anything but going straight to work, and then home. Last weekend I went to help a girlfriend get settled into her new apt., and we had some drinks on her patio. My last drink was at 2am (I stayed there), then (tried) to leave at 11:15am. I blew into the damn thing, and it did a "fail" 3 times in a row, then did a "warning", and let me start my car. On the way home, it did another "warning", then when I got home and shut off my car, and restarted it, it gave me a "pass". I then had to get it "reset". I can't imagine still having any alcohol in my system after that amount of time, but am worried about what it will say on the report. Any clues? I called the Lifesafer number 13 times on Sat. Their service is horrible - as was stated by my pre-trial officer. I got a return call telling me to "not worry about it, everything has alcohol in it".

My questions is, does anyone know if there were "residual" traces left in my system, or did something else cause it to malfunction. If there was, in fact, alcohol in my system, why did my car start? Why wasn't there a total "lock-out"? The pre-trial officer said that she will look at the report and see what it says, but I just don't trust this thing at all! I feel really bad for anyone who has to have this on long-term.

God Bless!

TexasGal, it sounds like you explained the experience you had wit the device with the court already, is that correct? I don’t know what a “pre-trial officer” is not being from Texas, is that your lawyer or the a Texas court official?

Anyway, most devices are not “zero tolerance” and are set to allow a breath BAC of .025 or even .030. So they permit a little alcohol in the breath. That’s why the car started after the fail because you were on the borderline.

Since you had your last drinks around 2:00 am, and were about a .03 when you tried to start you car at 11:00 (9 hours later), I’m going to guess you several strong drinks or you are very petite. The body only can process alcohol at a specific rate like ½ ounce an hour. So it’s possible you still had measurable breath alcohol in the late morning.

The IID has an electronic log. That log shows every start and reading the unit gives. So the report that will go to the court will show the time of the three failures and the BAC of them. If that log is sent to the court or probation officer, it’s really up to them how they handle you. You didn’t operate the car “under the influence” unless you have some agreement “not to drink at all” pending the case conclusion.

If you were ordered not to drink “at all” or ordered to not “have any measurable amount of alcohol” in your system while operating a vehicle, then you are in trouble (is the IID mfg. sends the log).

I do fid your case interesting in that you are a “first offender” that has not been convicted and the judge is ordering an IID for you. That seems very harsh by current court standards. But it may become the norm in the future.

To summarize, I don’t think you’re going to have any problem because the state of Texas has accepted that device and you passed the requirement to start the car and also a driving re-test. You could also say that you used mouthwash. It causes the devices to fail but dissipates quickly.

Anyway, sounds like you live in a real “Don’t Mess With Texas” township with the judge doing that.

Yes, it's horrible in Texas - especially the Dallas area! This was a pre-trial/bond agreement. They let me out on $500 bond, took away my driver's liscence, and ordered an IID until the trial, or until the case has been dissposed and/or my lawyer can get an order to get it removed. Word around here is that they are doing this on first time offenders, although I haven't seen any kind of law about it. It's been 2 months, and my case still hasn't been filed. One of my friends said that this is considered as "time served", and is actually a good thing - although my lawyer disagrees. He said that he will argue that it should have never been put on there in the first place. The probation officer is a "pre-trial" person that I have to see to monitor the IID, which I also have to pay an extra $10.00 more a month everytime I see her! I did tell her about the incident, and that I tried to call the Lifesafer people about 13 times before I received a return call. My BAC had to have been low, or (as you said), my car wouldn't have started. The guy at the Lifesafter looked at the report, but didn't charge me the $50.00 violation fee - which I don't understand. If there was a violation, wouldn't he have charged me? He just did a "reset", and gave me a receipt with a no-charge that said "violation" or "override" - ??? whatever that means!

I agree that these breathalyzers are more trouble than they should be.

Has anyone registered higher than they should and failed and what happened as far as penalties?

A few things I was told by a customer service agent here in MD (disclaimer, I'm only reporting what she told me):

There are over 10K IIL participants in MD. The office has grown from 4 employees to over 20 in the last few years and still growing. The database that's running the operation is (I don't know the op/platform, and neither does anybody that works in the office...its above them) has software issues/bugs...

For most of the vendors in MD, there are numerous problems in day-to-day dealings with the MVA (as told by SS rep). There's a six week backlog of faulty violation compliants that are due/caused for reasons other than OH violations (or legit medical reasons, like acid-reflux) 80% some percent who sign up with SS bail out/violate out/ or are driven out due to the tight tolerance levels (nebulous/or not).

The program is not sustainable, even more so that we are in a recession and possibly heading into a deep depression.

I ran across all the stuff everybody is talking about here. Its like dealing with a 1970s Soviet run govt office, as every one in the MVA office can't provide clear straight forward answers, and no incentive to do so.

The IIL standards are set so exceedingly high, that it will do the opposite of what the program is intended to do.

I've been locked out due to malfunction one night, result: pissed-off and had to leave the car, return in the AM, go to the installer and get a replacement. Numerous other incidents...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2009 06:38PM by troberts.

I had a CTS IntoxaLock few several months and had many problems. Many of the same issues I see mentioned in this forum. It was suppose to cost $65 a month with “lock out” charges, exorbitant shopping fees, and other fees they randomly seem to justify without warning, I got fed up and had the unit removed.

Even though I am court ordered to have the unit in for more than another year. My car is insured and I have completed all other requirement of my DUI case, this is the worst part of it. I’ll just take my chances because that device was way more trouble than it was worth.

These ignition interlock devices are just a big racket and the motor vehicle departments are not regulating them property and allowing them to get away with near criminal conduct. No free-market business could get away with their strong-arm tightly controlled and threatening tactics. You may have a choice of providers, but from what I have shared wit other people, they all behave the same way. You’re just a big wallet they can suck money out of and the motor vehicles will suspend your license if you don’t play by the interlock company rules.

So yeah, as MADD tries to get more of these devices installed for first time offenders and for longer periods of time and the IID lobbyists write the rules and get the states to adopt them, this program will gain momentum but most people will drop out. The IID companies don’t care because they will bill you for *the entire lease period* of the device even after it’s been removed and you are not legally allowed to drive anymore. Then the motor vehicles department suspends your license again making your driving record worse than before. It’s better to just not get one installed and try to avoid driving and use other transportation resources.

Best in MD if you you're not mandated by the ~court~ but fall into the category of points / interlock option...to take the 90 day lic. suspension, it is the lesser of the two evils.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/13/2009 06:35PM by troberts.

If you are revoked, they may issue a medical advisory hearing after the 45-90 days before you can get your license back, and the board can request an IID. I know a guy who did the 90 days revoked, and then got 3 years on the interlock. The new rules, from what National Interlock and MVA have said is that when you have completed your "sentence" or restriction, you do one more download, on the last day. They wont remove it, even if there are no violations. They fax the copy of the results of the last data log report and you have to wait until the monitor reviews your case and sends you a letter stating you can have it removed. Everyone is extended, regardless, for 7 days. You bring the letter in when it comes and have it removed, pay for the extra week of monitoring, and then pay to have the restriction taken off of your license. I thought I was counting down the days, now its 18 + 7 until the end of this nightmare.
I agree, this program is so incredibly screwed up that it's almost impossible to maintain your sanity while your on it. Everybody, I cant stress enough, get a breathalyzer, even if you dont have a IID, because you should always know your alcohol content to make the correct decisions. Trust me, a cab ride or call a friend is much easier than this horrifying event.

"I know a guy who did the 90 days revoked, and then got 3 years on the interlock"...

Did he/she have any prior(s)/multiple convictions?

"this program is so incredibly screwed up that it's almost impossible to maintain your sanity while your on it. Everybody, I cant stress enough, get a breathalyzer, even if you dont have a IID, because you should always know your alcohol content to make the correct decisions. Trust me, a cab ride or call a friend is much easier than this horrifying event. "

A portable hand-held BAC tester ($100 I guess for a decent one, but maybe less) should be in the glove department or somewhere if you're going to have more than a few drinks an hour.

As for the guy, he may have, I didnt ask. I just know he was surprised.
As for the price of a decent one, between $160.00 and $200.00. The cheap ones in the department stores are not Fuel Cell Technology, they are semiconductor-based breathalyzers and are not reliably accurate. The internet has good prices on decent ones. I agree, keep it in your glove box, get it calibrated when required and never be afraid again.

..."never be afraid again..." So long as you have a decent head on your shoulders, like you career, and are risk adverse. But yes,
keep to the rules...wait an hr or two if that's the price it takes to drop below .06 or whatever or under the legal threshold.

And as mentioned, get one and use before you go live with the IIL in your car....it will eliminate BAC violations, at least, the other $#%# violations
are due to legit malfunction, rolling retest or other narrow minded critera which, as you note, cause you to loose your sanity.

Passive alcohol detection if is unobtrusive, bullet proof, and serves an end to the means...preventing from driving while under the influence (of course, it won't work for hair-brained things people have been charged DUI for (motorized bar stools, horses, lawn tractors) or non car( motorcycles,) is coming.

You know the FEDS will legislate this into regulation if they have a very workable system that is net positive than negative. That is, the system should not penalize (like in alert the police through GPS) in the least. The criteria list would be long. Toyota/GM are researching.

But, this type of alcohle detection would be far better this the IID technology which is a pain in the ass.

This county will neve have infrastructure (efficient public transportation) that rivals Europe...it will be a balancing act between special interest (liq lobby, rest. associations) and public saftey.

20K folks are nailed in MD every year...the figure hasn't moved all that much in 10 years.

Agreed that Fuel Cell T is more accurate.

I live in Maryland and have had the ADS "Determinator" Interlock since January. I have had nothing but problems with it because I have a Toyota. Anytime my vehicle turns off a cylinder to save fuel (Which is done when I slow down too) the machine thinks that I have turned off and on the car and says: "You may start the Vehicle," while I am driving. Worse yet, If that occurs during a rolling retest...it tells me to pull over and stop the vehicle and logs it as a "Tampering" violation. This occurred on the Bay Bridge and I could not stop the car and turn off the engine....so my lights flashed and horn honked all the way across until the Bridge police pulled me over to ask what was wrong. I have to send a letter each month asking to have the violations removed since it is a known problem with this brand of device.
Now, I am in a rush to get to work at 9am and have just brushed my teeth and I get a Alcohol positive. Usually, I have coffee, watch the news, etc. which I guess gives time for the mouthwash to wear off. I am freaking out, call the vendor, who says if it was just mouthwash, rinse your mouth, wait 15 minutes and retest. I do and 15 minutes later...I can start the car and successfully pass 2 more rolling retests. The vendor says there is nothing he can do. What can I expect will happen? Will it be a regular violation extending this mess for another month? Or worse? Maryland and Troberts, please advise me...

Not sure, with all the problems you've been having. But, I also live in Maryland, have had the Lifesaver for 4 months now, earlier this month I went to start the car 9 something in the morning, FAILED..(.056).I was late for work, the pamphlet said lockout times will vary from 20 minutes to 24 hours, so I got a ride to work. They sent me a letter explaining I would not get credit for that particular 30 day period, and extended it another 30 days. That was my first fail. I definetely suggest getting a handheld breathalyzer, and change the batteries often. I wonder if you can request a different type of device to be installed, like the LifeSaver? It's a big enough hassle, without you having to write letters every month.

i noticed you have had a problem you say when you are coasting or when your vehicle is running on less than normal cylinders that it tell you to start vehicle i used to actually work for an ignition interlock company what it sound like to me is the installer does not have this device properly hooked up you need to contact them and have them either 1 check the tach wire or 2 see if they can intstall a tachless vehicle module
or you can check the tach wire yourself if he has it hooked up that way pop your hood and if you see the yellow wire coming from your firewall that is the wire that detects your tach signal now im guessing he probably has it hooked up to your fuel injector which is a no no because fuel injectors commonly cut out when rolling or not giving gas if you look up wiring diagrams for your specific vehicle it will tell you what is your tach wire is or where you can get a good signal then you can call them and make sure they hook it up right as long as these machines are properly hooked up there are minimal problems but you also have to realize most companies do not pay the installers what they should be making resulting in hiring unqualified technicians then resulting in problems for you

I agree, I tried another and had it removed the same day. Lifesaver is better. Always test with a breathalyzer because you wouldn't believe what will set these off. Hair Spray and hair gel, big culprit and with this humidity, geez. Be very careful, after 3 violations they will go back to the original suspension/revokation.

YOU WANT TO KNOW WHAT I THINK...

MOST OF THE PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM ARE IN SOME WAY CONNECTED DIRECTLY, (CORRUPT OFFICIAL STATE GOVERNMENT, COPS, DMV, IID COMPANIE ) OR INDIRECTLY (SPOUSES OF THOSE POLITICIANS, EMPLOYERS OF THESE COMPANIES WHO ARE GO-ALONG-TO-GET-ALONG FILTH WHO DON'T GIVE A F@$% WHOSE LIFE THEY DESTROY.

NOW, WHEN YOU SEE THE VIDEOS OF THE COPS GETTING THEIR HEAD BLOWN OFF WHILE MAKING A STOP FOR SOME INFRACTION, OR SOMETHING OF THE SORT, DON'T BE ASKING YOURSELF WHY. YOU WANT TO UPHOLD THESE LAWS THIS IS HOW YOU WILL PAY.

SOME PEOPLE HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE, DON'T MIND SPENDING TIME IN PRISON AND IF NEED BE THEY'LL DO WHAT THEY DO AS A LAST RESORT, RATHER THAN BEING IN A CONSTANT STATE OF OPPRESSION.

PEOPLE DON'T LIKE TO BE DEPRIVED OF THEIR GOD GIVEN RIGHTS. THEIR RIGHT TO TRAVEL, THEIR RIGHT TO MOVE ABOUT FREELY.

PEOPLE DON'T LIKE TO BE HUMILIATED AS IF THEY'RE HABITUAL DRUNKS AND HAVING TO BLOW INTO A F@$%NG PIECE OF SHIT MACHINE.

PEOPLE DON'T HAVE TO SPEND A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THEIR MONEY ON BULLSHIT THAT IS UNJUST AND SHOULDN'T BE THE PUNISHMENT FOR NOT HURTING ANYONE.

PEOPLE DON'T LIKE HAVING TO SPEND A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF THEIR LIFE DEALING WITH THE STRESS OF A VICTIMLESS CRIME AS IF THEY DID VICTIMIZE SOMEONE.

YES YOU CAN SAY WHATEVER YOU WANT YOU F@$%ING CORRUPT BUREAUCRAT BUT THAT WHAT IT IS.



Tags:
Bullshit, BULL-SHIT, IID, Ignition Interlock Device, outrage, trampled rights, MADD, corrupt government, corrupt laws, right to travel, suspended license