Why The 2009 Camaro Is Doomed
May 15th, 2008 Posted in Auto Industry, Car Reviews, Eric Peters
By Eric Peters, Automotive Columnist
Motorheads don’t want to hear it; refuse to believe it — but ugly realities are coming down hard on the ‘09 Camaro that will very possibly cause GM to pull the plug before the first one ever rolls off the line.
Doubt that? Consider the stillborn rear-wheel-drive next generation Chevy Impala — nixed because of concerns within GM about the possibility of meeting the pending (2012) 35 mpg fuel economy edict recently passed by Congress. A lighter front-drive car with a V-6 instead of a V-8 can make the cut; a V-8 RWD Impala can’t. So it’s gone. So is the talked-about next generation GTO. And the future of the G8 sedan looks not so good. GM is openly talking about scaling back the entire Pontiac division — and ending its role as a performance brand.
No bull; not my opinion. Just facts.
Now consider the 2009 Camaro — and the world in which it will have to swim. Gas prices are already surging toward $4 per gallon for regular unleaded. And Camaro’s not even here yet. By the time the car reaches production status in about eight months or so, we may very well be at $5 per gallon.
Maybe more.
At the same time, the buying power of the dollar is falling down the well — so everything is becoming more expensive, not just gas. And most of us are not making more money to compensate. Quite the opposite. Inflation and income stagnation are hitting us hard. Those of us who still have jobs and have been able to maintain the same income we had a year or so ago are few, thankful — and nervous. Buying a new car is not on our agenda. And buying a frivolous new car even less so. Camaro is not an exotic; it is a “Joe Sixpack” kind of car — so middle class and working class buyer skittishness is no small thing.
GM is well aware of these facts — which are going to kneecap Camaro (and any car like it) on the consumer level. Whatever the projected sales potential was two years ago should probably be cut in half. Bet your bippie that the bean counters within GM have thought about this, too.
That’s bad enough — and by itself could be sufficient to make going ahead with Camaro in 2009 about as sensible as building something like a Series 62 Cadillac would have been in 1979.
But wait, there’s more. Don’t forget the 10,000 pound Tallboy bomb that’s about to fall onto GM’s head (and ours) in the form of the 35 mpg CAFE edict. That changes … everything. The recession, crippling gas prices and declining buying power of the dollar are merely the coupe de grace.
A V-6 Camaro could maybe meet the current 27.5 mpg CAFE requirement for passenger cars without major engineering changes/expenses or hitting buyers with a “gas guzzler” surcharge that would bump the purchase price of the car up by $1,000 or more.
But 35 mpg? Only a few four-cylinder economy compacts and hybrids make it under that bar. Anything much over about 3,200 pounds with an engine larger than 3 liters is getting iffy. With a 300-plus hp V-8 engine and rear-wheel-drive?
Forget it.
Don’t believe it? Chew on this:
The current Ford Mustang GT — a car very similar in layout/power and so on to the pending ‘09 Camaro — manages just 17 mpg in city driving and 26 mpg on the highway. That’s with the 4 liter V-6 engine, by the way. The GT’s 4.6 liter V-8 (300 hp) slurps it down at the rate of 15 mpg in the city and 23 mpg on the highway. To survive 35 mpg CAFE, the V-8 Mustang GT would have to somehow nearly double its current average fuel economy. How is this going to be achieved, exactly? Think Ford is worried about the Mustang’s viability?
You’d better believe it.
The new Dodge Challenger is in even worse shape, CAFE wise. Its wonderful 6.1 liter V-8 won’t last long in this world, given city mileage of 13 mpg — and highway mileage that isn’t even out of the teens (18 mpg). Yes, a V-6 version is coming, but the most efficient engines of this size/type that Chrysler has available - like Ford — don’t come close to delivering 35 mpg.
Camaro’s in the same pickle. Neither the base V-6 version nor the high-powered V-8 model have a prayer of achieving CAFE compliance. If they’re produced, buyers will be facing huge “gas guzzler” surcharges that will only add to the growing roster of negatives arguing against making a purchase — from $75 fill-ups to the general uselessness of cars of these type, beyond their ability to provide a good time.
And here’s the deal: Chrysler’s already on the hook; the commitment to production has been made. It will have to at least try to make a go of it. For awhile. Ford has a strong buyer base for the Mustang; a case can be made that even with gas guzzler fees and generally awful times, economically speaking, it’s worth trying to hold the line — at least, for the moment.
But Camaro?
GM no longer has a sure bet buyer base; the name has been out of circulation for almost seven years now. That is a long time, regardless of other external issues, such as gas prices. Rebuilding a brand/make of car is tough in the best of times. In bad times, it is a fool’s errand. And it’s a luxury that cash-strapped, no longer number one GM cannot afford to indulge. If Camaro sinks — as all signs indicate it will — GM will lose a ton of money. Remember that unlike Challenger (which is “spun off” the existing Charger sedan) GM has had to invest a great deal in what amounts to a brand-new platform/tooling and so on to make this happen. Big sales are needed to make it up. It increasingly looks as though that is extremely unlikely to happen.
Which is why GM may just abort the whole thing before it ever sees the light of day.
You wait and see.
Comments?
www.ericpetersautos.com
Image Credit: Chevrolet
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55 Responses to “Why The 2009 Camaro Is Doomed”
By Mike on Dec 1, 2008
The 60’s are dead. Ancient history. A horrible time to have lived. Why reprise styling themes from this era? Guess some old timers can’t get this livid era out of their minds.
By John on Dec 1, 2008
Ok, so fuel prices are dropping, but for how long? I believe people are getting wiser (THANKFULLY) and are fearful of another surge in fuel prices. More people are (THANKFULLY) are actually interested in owning a vehicle that actually attains respectable fuel economy. That said, I wish to comment on the 2009 Camaro. First of all, I really believe this car will be a poor seller. Why? One reason is it’s backward styling. Fashioning it after the 1969 Camaro was a serious ERROR! The ‘69 Camaro, in my opinion, wasn’t exactly the prettiest Camaro built. The interior of the 2009 Camaro is just plain ugly. The 2009 Camaro looks like a badly bloated and contorted 1969 version. The Camaro, like the dreadful retro-Challenger will capture a fringe of customers. The Challenger will no doubt be a major sales disaster. There is NO chance in hell that the Camaro will be a “must have” and dealers won’t be able to keep enough in stock. They’ll sell, but how many and for how long? The folks at Chevy need to get that retro crap out of their blood. Remember the hideous retro inspired SSR truck thingy? The folks at Chrysler need to get the retro crap out of their blood, too. The 2009 Challenger is even a bigger mistake than the Camaro. Any wonder why Chrysler is on the brink of death????
By Bobby on Nov 11, 2008
Well, I’m glad to say that the gas price prediction is wrong. We are back down to $2.20 in my area. I doubt it will go up three bucks in a month or so. But those seem to be pretty viable concerns. I always thought it looked cool though.
Maybe all these car companies need to figure out how to shave off all the unnecessary weight. i.e all the unnecessary add-ons, gadgets, and things.
By Todd on Nov 3, 2008
People People!!! There is technology aready here that can help a vehicle to get both good performance and good MPG. Those whould include Variable Cylinder Management (VCM), E85, USLD diesel fuel which reduces emissions and gives the vehicle better MPG and torque, more gears, CVT transmissions, hybrids, and the good old turbocharger. All of those things are aready here. Guess What!!! there are better technology being invented as we speak and more to come. Those vehicle manufactures will just have to adjust to the changes based on the CAFE in which was passed by congress but I know it will be a challenge.
Here are some interesting vehicles in which you might want to take a look at.
1) Honda FCX Clarity (Hydrogen Fuel Cell)
2) Volkswagen Jetta TDI (40+ MPG)
3) BMW X5 Turbo Diesel Hybrid
4) Honda Accord 3.5 V6 (VCM)
By Vintage Vic on Nov 3, 2008
There is a new comment on the post “Why The 2009 Camaro Is Doomed”.
http://www.motorists.org/blog/why-the-2009-camaro-is-doomed/
Author: die hard
Comment:
Vintage Vic,
Put your old dodge carvan away and look at the new generation.
this car is awesome and being envious of it will get your comments no where.
I know i will have one and hope to have it as long as i had owned my iroc of the
80’s.
13 plus great years.
You guys just keep making my point for me. “We want what we want” is no argument; and thus you cant make a good comment or sustain an argument.
Again that doesn’t matter: i always expect this. Any old snowball can start an avalanche but that doesn’t mean much in the face of the facts. It just means your taste is lacking as is your knowledge of design.
Vic
By die hard on Nov 3, 2008
Vintage Vic,
Put your old dodge carvan away and look at the new generation.
this car is awesome and being envious of it will get your comments no where.
I know i will have one and hope to have it as long as i had owned my iroc of the 80’s.
13 plus great years.
By Rares on Nov 2, 2008
this thread is dead. theres nothing else to prove. And no point getting all economical and shet, because sooner or later there will be limits on the amount that a car can consume. so… my final thoughts are…altough the camaro may not outsell the challenger, ( in which case we will have to wait and see) i do believe the camaro has established firm roots for future sales that will outsell the challenger long term.
That is my opinion. agree or disagree i do not care. After all, if GM merges with Chrysler, shet could change drastically.
By Jeff on Nov 1, 2008
Airplanes, boats, and trains should also be required to meet fuel economy requirements.
By Randy on Nov 1, 2008
Vintage Vic I think that eventially Tony will be correct in that all cars will have to get 35 mpg unless we have enough repacement energy for cars. The big V8s and V6s will only be seen in vehicles that need to pull something big.
By Vintage Vic on Nov 1, 2008
Tony Says:
All cars that dont get 35 mpg should be banned world wide, they are destroying
the planet and wildlife. the earths core itself is powered by rich fuels.
anybody driving around in a v8 or suv without having a family should be arrested
and fried/killed in the electric bench in virginia. there is no sense in
destroying the planets fossel fuels and being a fat overweight slime blob at the
sane time. as with 7 out of 10 v8 owners are overweight steak eaters that
deserve hell anyway.
This moron is the enemy of the planet: the enemy of animals and humans both. The pseudo environmental book nerd whacko lib who still thinks slaves are still around. The terrorist SUV burning liberal who set fire in the name of “tolerance and compassion”and saving the planet burning suv’s.
A kind of American terrorist who thinks high taxes make good economics, who think that recreation needs to be regulated and then shut down because its fun. The classic communist who denies any ties to communism, but spews the Marx playbook word for word.
This unhappy hate hedonist and all like him want govt controlling our life, taxing us into poverty and making peoples lives generally miserable: He is the grinch who stole Christmas; and is proud of it. He is energized by his anger yet calls on the virtues of Jesus’s compassion . The kind who thinks that wealth should be redistributed from those who earned it to those who didnt.
Take a good look at this person and see just who it is who will take your paycheck and place you in the food lines, in order to feed those who don’t work, and give them a home to boot from your earnings. This is the invisible fascist who wants to ruin your life because he is not a fun person and will deny others of it.
This is the person who says others are uneducated but cant find any proof of global warming yet the argument is over without a debate: he is a fascist in a capitalist world: a misfit out of place, an Apple Bonker in Pepperland who’s anger will make you feels his unhappiness; who silences all the music and merriment. The Apple bonker in Pepperland; bonking you silent with his sour Apple. But lets get back to cars and away from czars.
Yes there will be a new Mustang to compete with the new Camaro to compete with the Dodge Challenger. Cant you see what the Camaro is doing then: bringing out the competition of the old days between the big three which like then will inspire a new era of car sales that is sorely needed in the lagging American car market? The need to spur car sales on with new fast and fun cars is a necessity in a nation who’s local resources and manufacturing base is outsourced to foreign countries.
This is the opportunity to bring back competition in professional racing, to bring back the fun of owning a piece of the great American past time: the American Muscle Car.
The new dodge challenger will challenge the new Camaro which will challenge an even newer and stronger Mustang. Frankly though I dont see how much better it gets than having a new Saleen Mustang to prowl the streets flexing its looks and muscle. In the end the Camaro will only hope to be this pretty.
By Nick Dago on Oct 31, 2008
Well as usual time will tell which of you are pinheads on this blog and which actually know what they are talking about. As of this point however the Camaro pre-sales are already kicking the Challanger SRT, and the V6 version has much more to offer all around than the Challanger V6. Ford is doing everything they can to get a new Mustang out that actually competes with the new Camaro, which shows that the current Mustang does not compete well head to head with the new Camaro. So for those of you who are so sure the Camaro is not going to sell you might want to wait and see before you put your foot in your mouth any deeper than you already have.
By tony on Oct 31, 2008
all cars that dont get 35 mpg should be banned world wide, they are destroying the planet and wildlife. the earths core itself is powered by rich fuels. anybody driving around in a v8 or suv without having a family should be arrested and fried/killed in the electric bench in virginia. there is no sense in destroying the planets fossel fuels and being a fat overweight slime blob at the sane time. as with 7 out of 10 v8 owners are overweight steak eaters that deserve hell anyway.
By Rares on Oct 23, 2008
Who knows..maybe the new mustang will kill em both??
By trey on Oct 23, 2008
This guy is clearly an idiot look take from a car dealer this car is not doomed!!!
By CAMARO SCOTTY on Sep 19, 2008
I guess you were WAY OFF BASE with this whole article….”FACT”, yea right.
I guess if you worked at a Chevy dealership, you’d find out just how wrong this story ever was.
Oh, and many Dodge people fed up with their dealership’s practices are now ready to go CHEVY. Better car, better built, better EVERYTHING!
By Vintage Vic on Sep 16, 2008
Get ready to get bitten back.
These tires are ugly, the wheel wells are to big. I said i predicted that the challenger will out sell the camaro and it will: the v8 to v8 version of either car notwithstanding the v6 which dodge isnt making at the moment, but probably will. When it does I predict the v6 challenger will outsell the Camaro too.
The new camaro was designed after two models the 67 and 69 respectively. It is not a real retro anything: but a retro mishmash of ill defined design; and im sure the idiot who redesigned it knows that, and its because he as i said wanted to put his personal signature on it and today most cars have little to no imagination in body design unlike the days of Fisher who designed some real classics that stand the test of time;and because of that, its again why i said the re design of the 69 is featured in the ‘09 “retro” Camaro.
You forget the rules of design son, the Challenger may be longer and even taller, but the fact that the whole design is in perspective of itself, meaning not too much is out of line with uniformity, its why it is a better looking car. Methinks it is to large myself, and i said that in another blog you can google using Dodge Challenger + Vintage Vic. but the challenger gets it closer to the retro design and thus gets it more right while the Camaro does not.
The unsafe for the standards of muscle car tires, I dont really care what you say. just because as you parents said …your friend jumped off the bridge does it mean that you have to do it too? these tires are a trend not a retro design; and as i said sticker shock will cost you much more than the headache is worth replacing them. That could have been avoided.
When i used the expression i said the side is ‘mostly not used in photos’ I never said it is entirely eliminated. I knew what i was saying when i said it or would not have said it. so i repeat just about all the pics you see are from angular views with the photos not daring to tread on the side of the car.
Ummm hmm the design of the car doesnt matter to you ? LOL well Iguess im making my point clear with your assistance. it should matter if it is a classic muscle car,
paricularly if it is retro because retro must be carefully thought out not recklessly
designed from what ever stuck to the wall when it was thrown…
and what you re telling me is just my point, any schlock can me manufactured today with recklessness and it will sell. Im calling for manufacture quality of design in hopes that this ill regarded point is taken into consideration sometime down the road rather than being avoided as it currently is.
Yea I know that there will always be someone somewhere buying the car for its looks. Again you are making my point: what should matter doesnst matter because perspective of design was lost since the 60’s when the classics were designed; and they manufactures of just about anything know that if you throw enough of anything to a wall it will stick…with your assistance of course.
What you probably dont realize is that i am well WAS a Camaro fan but am not any more. I gave chevy many years to fix its mistakes in design and it never did; and particularily ruined the car from the ’80’s till the mid ’90’s. Needless to say i was very happy with the retro stang’s success because they got it and got it right for the most part.
You can nit pick me all day long and all blog long, i made my point and made it with clarity i think. That it would fall on deaf ears was already anticipated by me.
Classic body design needs to be re instated in the manufacture of muscle cars. if the Porsche can hold the same design for esentially 35 some years there is no reason why the twitchy US car manufacturers cant hold a classic design on a classic car and stop doing what they do; fall all over their insecurity of having to neccessitate a re design of a classic look because they fear lagging sales. But the issue is now they are stuck because consumers dont know any better and abet their neurosis.
Vintage Vic
By Rares on Sep 13, 2008
Dude, listen, you can criticize a camero that it wunt suceed all you want, or w.e, BUT there will always be someone, somewhere, buying this car for itts looks. When this car comes out, its guna be one of the hottest looking cars on the market. and as for me..Yes id buy the car, who cares how much gas it consumes, because guess what, all automakers are always going to try and make cars to consume as less as possible, so either way, ure always most likely from now on that your going to get good gas consumption deals on most cars coming out in the future, regardless of the automaker. If your to poor to afford to pay for gas, go buy a cheap cheap 4 cylinder, take the transit or go bike. Stop making dumbass articles about cars being a failure, because people will always need cars, and slowly the cars are not guna need gas to run. And when people wna go buy a car they normally say whatever, il just get the V6 or whatever it comes with, because frankly, someone would rather pride themselves with the cool car their driving around, rather then how rich they are and that they can afford the high gas prices. this was a dumb article, GM promised the release of the caamaro, the movie transformers only helped spread GM’s advertising, and now i dont dounbt if it will be a big sucess.
By Tim De Young on Sep 10, 2008
Vintage Vic, you are just trying to impress yourself by arrogantly imposing your opinion on us. What makes you so important that you can come in here and disrespect all the rest of our opinions? It’s people like you that make the rest of us (the REAL enthusiasts) want to puke.
Vic, you have a serious lack of common sense, and it shows because it is blatantly obvious that you have not done any research on this car. You would rather spout off randomly than base anything on fact, I guess for the fear of fact coming back to bite you?
Well Vic, get ready to get bitten:
Since when does a consumer need an “understanding of design” to like a car? People like a car for any number of reasons. This new Camaro was the most well-received car put out by General Motors EVER in their 100-year history. Almost TWO MILLION people requested information on it.
So they show the best looking angles of the car. Really? You mean they’re practicing basic marketing? I’m pretty sure that every other car in existence is marketed too. By the way, Vic, take a look at the Camaro page on Chevy’s website. What’s that? Oh… it’s a side view, just like you said rarely exists.
“Three inches of rubber from rim to the floor is not safe”. Huh? Well whatever, that’s alright. Even the SS model with its 20-inch wheels has 4.2 inches of tire sidewall, and the base model with its 18-inch wheels has 5.2 inches.
You might wanna know that the guy who lead the design team of this car is Ed Welburn. Ed drives a 1969 Camaro to work almost every day, and has done so for years. So, oops - there goes another one of your arguments out the window.
Vic, you say the Camaro is too long to be a muscle car, I guess you’re forgetting that the Challenger is 7 inches longer.
In a previous comment, Vic, you say “GM willfully refused to hear its Camaro fan base”. You could not be more wrong. As a member of the Camaro Focus Group, I can attest to how enthusiast-injected this Camaro is. Every member on the Camaro Development Team is as enthusiastic about the car as I am, if not more so, and it shows with their attention to detail.
I’m willing to put my money where my mouth is, are you? With my arguments based on the facts, I predict the Camaro will easily and handily outsell the Challenger. In 3-4 years we’ll see who is right.
In one corner, we have the few imbeciles like the fact-ignoring Vintage Vic. In the other corner, we have almost two million Camaro fans. I’ll put my money on the two million, thank you very much.
By Vintage Vic on Sep 10, 2008
Again guys: this car is butt ugerly. I’ve never seen a car design that was so all over the map like this one: just like those who’s taste is who like it.
Where do we start…hmm too wide of a front grill: a bumper to bumper smile that needs to be shortened. A fat ass end meeting an over thin elongated body, whats with the two mouths on the front of the car: the grills going in two different directions… ? instead of a straighter wider grill it has an overly thin grill looking like an upturned smile, on a fat car. It makes me think of a fat girl ugly girl smiling at you when she walks by with a milkshake in her hand.. Yea this is a classic example of American uniformity that cost American designed cars first place on the world market.
It’s way too long for a muscle car; looking from a side view, the front nose from the front tire to the front of the front bumper is too far in length; the wheel well is too wide: and the tires, too big: and round wheel wells ? LOL. it’s ass end needs a diet, and it was made that way to compensate for the mistake of the erroneous elongated re design.
You hadn’t noticed most of the shots of this car taken for promotional purposes are arial views? Angular views, and RARELY a side view because they know it looks ugly there;
photographers don’t go there much; and for good reason.
it looks as flat as a stage prop; the broad side of a barn.
These camera guys know what they are doing: they’re showing you the good side of the car from airial view and angles that you never see any car from. i suppose you are going to like the view of it that you get from your helicopter then. LOL.
What’s with those huge tires anyway? Why the need ? Obviously it looks as though they built the body around the tire size and screwed the design for doing that. The Camaro grew from a more stout muscular looking car to a (touring)? car that was born with a case of faulty genetic giantism,
Those large tires will cost you plenty more out of your pocket. OOPS, thoughtful huh? More money for Goodyear compliments of you. The tires need to be more standardized guys for practicality. Three inches of rubber from rim to the floor is not a safe tire either on a muscle car: i guess that was inspired from an Italian ten speed bike?
If you like it is is basically because you lack understanding of design.
The original ‘69 though simple is really a handsome car; its had its basic design written in its stout body style with straight lines; giving it the muscular look of a true and unique dream car that actually inspired the look of the re design of this new camaro.
It was the best looking Camaro: hands down and the idiot who designed it obviously wanted to put his personal stamp on it and said “screw you” to the fan base that made the ‘69 the best selling car of the 60’s Camaros. Hmm sounds like the GTO.
So just like what was done to the GTO is why I said this car is doomed. Maybe you like the goofy wedge design of the 80s shlock that they made for way too many years: ‘82 to what ‘93, because the wedge was as basic as a design could get without really having to try to use any imagination ?
Listen. the ’60’s muscle cars were the best in designed body styles…from the GTO the ‘Stang, the Chevelle…its why they are so sought after duuuh.
To sick this car on us and pretend it is based on a classic look is insulting to any collector or appreciator of classic cars.
So go ahead; predict they will be all over the highway, just like the twinkie looking wedges of the 80’s were: so what. LOL. So In turn, i predict that the challenger will outsell it.
Vintage Vic
By John on Sep 6, 2008
Whoever says the Camaro is ugly obviously has something against it. Nobody in their right mind thinks this car is ugly. Just shut the hell up.
I don’t think the gas prices stop anybody from buying the car they really want. The people who want this car are the ones who have a lot of money anyways. I predict these cars will be all over the highways.
By Justin on Sep 6, 2008
To make a point you can get decent gas miliage with a performance car. It has to be set up right and driven right for one. My 2007 Mustang GT gets 31 MPG on the autoban here in Germany at 80mph, with a cold air induction system and a computer programer set to econmy mode and running 6% more air that fuel. My 1996 BMW 325I that I had got 38MPG and could do over 150MPH all day long on the autoban. It is very possible to have a fun car and get decent gas milage.
By Jeff on Aug 30, 2008
The Ford Mustang will be getting an ECOboost engine - a V6 with twin turbos.
By Jeff on Aug 30, 2008
I hate to disappoint you, but the new Dodge Challenger is selling like hot cakes.
By Ames Tiedeman on Aug 30, 2008
The 2009 Camaro will not be cancelled. Do not worry!
By Jack on Aug 30, 2008
Vintage Vic:
I don’t agree with you at all. The Camaro isn’t ugly. It’s beautiful! If Chevrolet keeps the 6 cylinder priced in the low $20,0000 range, like they have said they will, the car will be a smash!
Ford Mustang will have to up the horse power on it’s V6, if it wants to keep up with this Camaro. The 6 cylinder Camaro has got over 300 horse power, and is reported to perform 0-60 mph in 6 seconds. Only thing I will add, is that American cars aren’t as good as foreign cars. Honda,Toyota and Nissan are way better quality, but they sure don’t look as good as this new Camaro.