By driver on Oct 23, 2007

Interesting yet disturbing read. Pretty soon the government will be responsible to drive us to work, tell us what to eat, and when and where to enjoy ourselves. On a serious note, is there anything from stopping other (read: foreign) car manufacturers from adopting this technology? What’s stopping Toyota or VW/Audi from doing the same?

By Airborne Bob on Oct 23, 2007

We must never, never, never forget that, “government” or “corporations” are all encompassing terms that in reality is compossed of an individual or group of individuals. Therefore what is really being said is that someone else is being permitted to spy on or otherwise alter or change or lives and us as individuals—-wherein the obvious question is: why should another individual be allowed to do so simply because of their job description—are they better than us?

By Douglas Guerra on Oct 23, 2007

This is why I will never buy a GM product except for MAYBE an Opel which is a memeber and financial contributor to the VDA (A sort-of National Motorists Association for automobile manufacturers in Germany).
You can bet almost immediately the means to circumvent this software would become available. And it seems that a pretty cut-and-dry proof-of-innocence could be established for anyone accused of “Speeding” while driving one of these cars.

By Broke Man Walking on Oct 24, 2007

I can’t help but wonder what the reaction to all of this will be from the law enforcement agencies who make up significant portions of their budgets from speed violations. Then, there are the insurance companies who will no longer be able to use speeding tickets as an excuse to hike people’s insurance premium. Last but not least, of course, don’t forget the companies who sell speed measurement devices - radar, lidar, speed cameras, etc.

There are so many profit margins threatened by this that I’m sure furious lobbying against any sort of speed-governing solution.

More likely, a “compromise” could be reached which will allow drivers to travel at whatever speed they choose, just as it is today. However, law enforcement agencies will have free access to, and insurance companies will have the ability to “purchase” at any time the telemetry records from anyone’s vehicle.

By Rick Murray on Oct 25, 2007

Just makes you wish you could be a do-gooder too, huh?

By Disgusted on Oct 25, 2007

Then there’s the possibility (no, make that probability) that the bad guys will find a way to hack into this and the next thing you know, you’re driving down a secluded road and your car stops - making you vulnerable to attack by the bad guy that just stopped your car for you.
Not a good thing.

By Dave S. on Oct 25, 2007

If Eric Peters had bothered to read up, OnStar uses the GPS to locate the vehicle, but it uses cell phone technology to communicate.

The GPS receiver in an Onstar equipped vehicle can only -receive-.

My car already has speed limiters - first is the lack of horsepower to acclerate indefinitely. The second is the rev limiter to keep the engine in one piece. The third, and most formidible is the paper I signed in exchange for the privelege of getting a driver’s license - the one with the promise to obey all the traffic laws. If you don’t like the laws, give up your car or truck and bike to work. The world doesn’t need a bunch of liars driving around.

Yes, Disgusted. Bad guys will hack the system. Much easier than, say, waiting at a stop light and capping the driver. Oh - that’s what you were afraid of in the first place. Hmmm.

I think it will be a wonderful thing. Just cram down on the gas and the car changes speed to the limit. No more worries about some a=hole blowing through traffic to get just one more car ahead, then jamming on the brakes to fit in the slot that’s too small, causing everyone behind him to slow down even more than he did. No one overtaking. No more whining about left lane campers.

By driver on Oct 26, 2007

“If you don’t like the laws, give up your car or truck and bike to work. The world doesn’t need a bunch of liars driving around.
”

Give me a break. Thousands of people break the traffic laws every single day. Don’t be so naive. There are not enough traffic cops is this country to pull over every violator. I’m sure you dis-obeyed some traffic laws yourself on the way to work today. Of course, you must be Mr. Perfect and drive exactly at that speed limit and always use your turn signals and never drive too slow or too fast.

Do you roll thru stop signs instead of coming to a complete stop? Have you ever passed someone who was turning left and crossed the into the break down lane? Of course not, because you obey the traffic laws all the time, everytime you drive. I mean you signed the paper so that must be a safe assumption.

Secondly, you obviously know nothing about automobiles to say lack of horsepower and rev limiters control your speed. Just about every modern car today has enough horsepower to reach speeds well in excess of most highway speed limits. Torque is what accerates your car not horsepower. To say the machine is what’s limiting your speed and acceleration is absolutely ridiculous. Most modern cars start to hit their limit over 110-115 mph. Is that how fast you are traveling in order for your car to limit your speed?

By matt on Oct 26, 2007

Lets all be like Montanna and abolish speed limits altogether. The cops need only to pull over those that are truely being stupid on the road. The other effect is that those stupid people that drive excessivly fast wont live to try it again. This is the way germany does it.

By Manny P. on Oct 26, 2007

Aha the present government sure has you all by your noses. I can’t believe it some for it other against it. Its a, Hello, a split. You all know what a split means…divide. Check your history the Romans loved this ploy because they added “…and conquer!”.
I’m not speaking new stuff. Hell my favorite guy is none other then Thomas Jeffereson. You’ll heard of this white dude. He said it right in the, What!, yea Declaration of …
First paragraph …”it is up to YOU to destroy or abolish that form of government. Thats right your all so busy fighting each other and the “powers that be” are just loving it all up. IF you can’t see that, some do, it is just a money driven citation for each state then we have a problem “Houston.”

By Fritz on Oct 28, 2007

Welcome to the future. This revelation is not surprising. A system that has this much control of a vehicle and can monitor it, it’s only the next logical step to allow the government in on the control. GM seems to have a habit of being the first auto maker for such innovations. They were the first with on board recorders (black boxes). I know it dates me but my last GM vehicle was a ‘65 SS Impala I bought in ‘67. It looks like that may be my last GM vehicle.

Now that the technology is getting cheap enough almost nothing is impossible. We are quickly getting to the point of asking the big question as to how much control we want the government to have over our driving. Some car manufacturers are already working on cars that drive themselves. It’s only a mater of time. The infrastructure will need to be modified to use them…at least initially.

We may end up similar to how new aircraft are set up and operated. New passenger jets will basically fly themselves (that’s what made it so easy for the hijackers on 9/11). That’s nothing new. But the monitoring technology now allows companies and the government to watch pilot actions like a hawk. Sensors are everywhere on a newer aircraft. If a crew member farts they can find out about it and there’s no wiggle room for a pilot to say he or she didn’t do something. Regardless of the technology pilots still pretty much control the basic operation of the plane.

I believe we will still make our own driving decisions but the monitoring will be extensive. The technology is already available and could easily be modified to be used however the government decides too use it.

New homes are being fitted with electronic monitoring and controls. Do we want the government monitoring and controlling us in our own home? Some would even argue that this is not a bad thing. Frankly it scares the hell out of me.

By Fritz on Oct 28, 2007

Airborne Bob makes some good points. Do we want individuals and special interest groups controlling our lives? Because of technology it’s certainly becoming more and more of a possibility and in some cases a reality. And the lack of input from the masses allows this to happen. Special Interest groups (read lobbyest), know this. Our form of government is not working very well because we are not forcing it too. We are not involved.

If you’ve every watched some the boring congressional hearings on CSPAN you know how proud some of these government bureaucrats are at monitoring your activities electronically. And how some companies are too. I hate to say it but the 9/11 terrorist attacks was a gift to those individuals and groups. It lends legitimacy to what the government was already trying to do prior to 9/11 which was more monitoring to control it’s citizens.

We have too many college educated idiots, do-gooders, zealots and corps. wanting to make money off you; wanting to tell us what to do. All you need to do is study traffic control issues to understand that. The difference between the aforementioned and us is that they have gained access to the power levers of government and we have not. Thats our fault. If you love freedom you BETTER become involved.

As a society we are becoming so familiar with computer machines that execute everything precisely and perfectly according to program instructions that some are expecting humans to act accordingly for example execute intersections perfectly every time, all the time. Or drivers should believe two numbers printed on a speed limit sign that is set perfectly by some bureaucrat setting in his/her ivory tower. Computers would never question speed limits. Do we want to become more like computers? I think NOT.

One of the scary things that government realizes is that as the older generations pass, the younger generations will never knew the freedoms that the older generations had and therefore never miss them. For younger generations that leads to lessor reaction to even more government control. As this process continues, if we are not careful the combination of technology to accomplish all this control, the do-gooders and aforementioned parties, and the lack of public input into the process of government will lead to controlling every aspect of our lives. Go ahead and call me paranoid but it’s the only logical conclusion. That’s why I see traffic control issues as a microcosm of a even larger problem. If those of us who want to see REASONABLE traffic control measures can’t accomplish that then certainly the effect on the larger picture looks bleak indeed.

By DontForgetCapitalism on Oct 30, 2007

Don’t totally forget economic forces guys. If enough people are aware of the monitoring and offended by it they simply won’t buy the product. Vendor can’t sell the product, they’ll remove the offending cause. Done.

The thought they would introduce monitoring to the masses on such an intrusive scale and be totally uncontested by public opinion is quite ridiculous… well, unless terrorists start suicide ramming cars into people. I guess I’d just move to a different country at that point.

By Fritz on Nov 10, 2007

DontForgetCapitalism, don’t be surprised at anything.

The masses have become so used to control by the government that it certainly wouldn’t surprise me if this could become reality. We are already monitored everywhere. Vehicles would just be another step towards total control.

There are those educated idiots that have already concluded privacy is no longer necessary in our lives. Surveillance, monitoring…what ever you want to call it. Haven’t you heard, it’s all done under the guise of terrorism. The government must know all your business and constantly monitor you to protect you. Knowing where you go in your car is not that far an extension of that idea. Lean back, enjoy it NOT!

There are those who hinted of this as far back as Ben Franklin and we never heeded the warning.

By R Werwee on Nov 11, 2007

GM reported it’s biggest losses in history
last week, maybe this is a reason why.
This is just another sign of a bigger problem-
Everyone’s personal freedoms and choice is slowly being taken away.
IMHO mostly because people can not act right-So, we have to make up all kinds of laws and rules, and when they do not work, we make more rules to enforce those already in place.
People are weak- They look to the Government to solve all their problems in lieu of getting an education, then working hard and contributing to the common good of the nation. Just keep rewarding mediocracy by supplementing the wages, housing, food etc. of the lackluster.
Soon the Govt. will tell you everything-Where and if you can smoke, drink, outlaw fatty foods and fast food for the obese, even when and where and who you are allowed to procreate with.
So, why would anyone want to limit how fast a
driver can go? Sometimes drivers need to go faster than the speed limit to escape a hazard or get around a knumbnut. Why limit
anyone’s speed when the Government now can just mail a ticket for speeding because the GPS told them so, or the car’s sensors that detect smoking went off, or you were swearing, or playing music too loudly, or dropped your kids off late for school, or you stopped at a McDonnald’s and you are overweight the sensor in the seat tells them that also.

By Bill on Nov 23, 2007

Feel free to not order OnStar. If you have it and don’t like the negative features noted if they are actually implemented and I don’t think so, feel free to disconnect or disable it. How about a little aluminum foil wrapped over the OnStar antenna?

By john on Dec 4, 2007

Best safety feature that could be installed on a vehicle today would be a governor set for the maximum legal speed limit (70?) that couldn’t be tampered with. It’s obvious that people watch irresponsible advertising performed on closed courses, or NASCAR, and are too stupid to differentiate reality from fantasy. Furthermore, anybody who drives a classic/antique car and drive it over 65 or 70 is an idiot too, handling and brakes just aren’t up to it. Basically, from my observations, most people lose any semblance of good judgement once they’re let loose on the interstates, so if state police don’t have the means or the desire to enforce the law, then hooray for GM. GM currently has the best products on the road and IMHO always has. It’s hard to believe that all automakers don’t have DRL as standard equipment (GM standard since 1994). Regarding enhanced Onstar, if it helps keep me safe and I’m not doing anything wrong, then why do I really care who’s watching?

By T-Bull on Dec 4, 2007

Just don’t buy GM

By James Young on Dec 5, 2007

John writes:

“Best safety feature that could be installed on a vehicle today would be a governor set for the maximum legal speed limit (70?) that couldn’t be tampered with.”

That’s absurd. It has long been established that speed limits have no effect on key safety measures or, even worse, have a negative correlation as evidenced by the crash incidence curve.

“Basically, from my observations, most people lose any semblance of good judgement once they’re let loose on the interstates. . .”

The statistics don’t support that observation. The fatality rate on Interstate highways is about 0.8 per 100,000,000 VMT.

“GM currently has the best products on the road and IMHO always has.”

That opinion is not supported by consumer choices or other more objective measures.

“If. . .I’m not doing anything wrong, then why do I really care who’s watching?”

That is the mantra of good little fascists everywhere.

By SirJohn on Dec 11, 2007

Re. the issue of ‘Big Brother’s gross intrusions into its citizens individual privacy, We are well past “1984″—”fishing expeditions” now appear to be fully,and,legally sanctioned via the “PATRIOT ACT”,and its predecessor,and successor laws!!! What kind of “PATRIOT” agrees with the outright RAPING OF OUR U.S. CONSTITUTION as applied to our private ,and personal affairs,our autos,home life,business,et. al. ‘Tis liken to trying to extinguish a fire using gasoline as the ‘extinguishing agent’—WAKE UP AMERICA!!!YOUR HOME IS NO LONGER YOUR CASTLE (NOR IS YOUR VEHICLE,ITS CONTENTS,YOUR “PRIVATE” AFFAIRS, AND OTHER POSSESSIONS, ARE NOT ANY LONGER,SOLELY YOUR PRIVATE CONCERNS,FOR “BIG BROTHER” CAN, AND OFTEN DOES,–BOTH OUTRIGHT AS WELL AS STEALTHILY,MAKE GROSS INTRUSIONS THEREIN )—ALAS, ALAS, OUR MOTHER LIBERTY HAS HER EYES AWASH IN TEARS!!!

By Mark on Dec 17, 2007

Correct Sir John,
The Pariot Act is a powerful government tool
There is a dvd call “Unconstitutional” A War on our Civil Liberties
It is all about the Patriot Act. Every American should see this. See what our Government is aiming for. Is it a “New World Order”? Like Bush wants. Or what is on our money. Yes, we all need to come together against our money hungry institutions.
We need to realize we are all human beings.
Not white, black, indian, mexican….
This is why the Government keeps the race issues on the front burner. So that we don’t unite.

By Damned Gent on Dec 21, 2007

To John,
You are obviously an idiot not worth a third grade edjucashun, but I’ll try…
GM makes consistently substandard cars that are engineered to break and designed to be difficult for Joe Sixpack to fix by himself. This generates secondary income for GM in the form of parts and service. I have first hand knowledge of this, as I watch my good friend repeatedly sink money into an ‘economical’ Chevy, made economical because it was built with spit and paper clips. And new spit and paperclips cost a lot of money and must be ‘professionally’ installed.
The insipid ‘Chevy Vs. Ford’ debate makes as much sense as debating whether Bud or Miller has ‘more taste’. Both automakers repeatedly produce junk from foreign parts and resources, then claim they’re ‘Made in America’ because an overpaid ‘worker’ in Georgia took piece ‘a’ and piece ‘b’ off the boat from China and put them together. Look it up, John. This ‘worker’ repeats one simple manual task over and over,and feels justified in being paid upwards of $80+ dollars an hour to do what a monkey could do better and faster with less training. It takes more skill and training to work at a fast food joint than to be an automotive assembly line worker. The average foreign car can be made faster and better, or better and faster, AND shipped here from overseas, and still be sold so much more cheaply than ‘American’ cars that they must be hammered with tariffs to make ‘American’ cars competitive.
Fact is (Seriously, look it up), many Hondas and Toyotas are more ‘American Made’ than Ford or Chevy vehicles.
A brand new Ford Mustang, for instance, has less than 10% parts that originated or were manufactured in America. Ford Tough, indeed.
But you just keep on believing that Bulls**t ‘This is our country’ ad campaign that Chevy trotted out just for gullible folk like yourself.
USA! USA! USA!

By Damned Gent on Dec 21, 2007

Also, John, regarding your Orwellian comment:

“if it helps keep me safe and I’m not doing anything wrong, then why do I really care who’s watching?”

Move to North Korea, Commie.

By Hubcap on Dec 21, 2007

Damned Gent,

Having spent 20 years as a dealer technician for all of the big 3, but mostly Ford, all I can say is BRAVO!! {{{hubcap stands & cheers}}}

John is the guy Ben Franklin warned us about.

By John on Dec 24, 2007

Wow, you guys need a life and some BP medication…… lol

By Meg on Feb 1, 2008

Guess I’m a little late on the discussion, However after reading John’s “Best safety feature that could be installed on a vehicle today would be a governor set for the maximum legal speed limit (70?) that couldn’t be tampered with.”

Makes me wonder if he’s ever left the city. I mean seriously have you ever driven across the middle of the country, say Kansas or South Dakota. I’ve driven across both and driving 70 mph is like driving 45 mph on the flat interstae when you can see for 50+ miles in any direction.

I think John should get out more.

By J on Feb 1, 2008

I doubt speeding is going to go away. Cities need revenue and one big way to achieve this is for PD’s to catch speeders. Sounds good in theory but I dont think it will work. But who knows?

What happens when a person has an emergency and has to drive their personal vehicle to a hospital but cannot get there in time? I bet if this was imposed we would see a lot of people getting to work late for a while. ;)

By John on Feb 4, 2008

Meg, I regularly drive the I-95 corridor between NYC & DC and believe me, do 75mph and you’re a hazard because you’re holding up everyone else. Doesn’t matter if in KS or VA, still breaking the law and wasting fuel. If you have that need for speed then get a pilot’s license and buy a plane.

By Meg on Feb 5, 2008

Wasting fuel? I would say all of the commuters in VA who drive SUV’s and refuse to carpool are wasting more fuel than speeding wastes.

Fuel economy is gianed by maintaining a contstant speed which city driving does not lend itself well to. You only burn fuel more if you are constantly accelerating and decellerating. Cruising at 70mph or 80mph makes little difference on how much fuel you burn if it is just that cruising. Unless of course you are driving a V10. Like I said, John, you need to get out of the city.

By John on Feb 5, 2008

Then you’re still a criminal.

By joe b. on Feb 28, 2008

I just hope that whoever comes up with this bullshit to keep us all safe and orderly and in our cages has a heart attack and drops dead on the highway because he was on his way to the hospital but couldn’t get there in time cuz he had to not speed. We were not put on this earth to exist as long and as law abiding as possible. It’s a good thing that our founding fathers weren’t such a bunch of nanny douchebags as G.M. & whoever else is for this or we would not be here! Shame on us for crap like this.

By John on Mar 5, 2008

I’m sure that our founding fathers would agree that today’s world is a much different place than it was 250 years ago. When someone close to you is killed by some asshole careening down the highway at twice the speed limit, then manages to leave the scene of the accident and is never caught, your attitude will change. Go vote for Hillary.

By joe b. on Mar 6, 2008

I don’t think people are going 140 mph, in fact I’ve never seen anyone go much over 80-85mph in my entire life. It sounds like you just don’t trust the human being to be responsible and run his or her own life anymore without help and control from the govt. and thats sad. You and me really don’t belong in the same place. and 2 things; no I won’t be voting for any socialist like Hillary or Obama. and in reading some of these other comments it is clear that my feelings on the subject are in the majority. Goodbye forever freak.

By Joe on Mar 7, 2008

John, I can sympathize with anyone who has someone killed, particularly by anything other then natural causes. It’s understandable that what ever the cause of a incident it would be your central focus and generate a passionate call to do something to rectifying it. It is however, under those circumstances, not the appropriate time run out and pass new laws or call for more enforcement. Cooler heads should prevail.

This is exactly what MADD and similar organizations have done to get such draconian DUI BAC’s and enforcement tactics passed into laws. They use psychology on politicians. It’s hard for any politician to reject a bill for a new law when their emotions get stirred up. MADD drags someone who has gotten badly hurt or someone’s parents that had a kid die because of a alcohol related accident. Any story, the more dramatic the better. Common sense dictates that you try not to make important decisions in that environment. Unfortunately it’s not illegal for MADD or any other organization to do this.

I just wish our founding fathers would not have written, in some cases, such ambiguous documents. Powerful attorneys and activist judges tend to interpret them the way the see fit. It’s probably a good thing the Constitution was written that far back otherwise under the current mood of our society our nanny state would be far worse.

By Mike on Mar 20, 2008

Watching the new Onstar commercials where the car swerves to miss a deer then hits a tree then an operators telling the driver helps on the way, I can imagine SNL doing a parody where the drunken driver tells her to mind her own business, its just a scratch and cancel the EMS. Wonder what the statistic’s for Onstar reporting minor accidents & subsequent DUI arrest of driver. I’d be pissed if my own car got me busted.

By Barak Hussein Obama on Mar 31, 2008

Airbags deploying is more than just a scratch…..

By Todd on Jun 26, 2008

I agree with most of you that the govt is taking alot of freedom away from us, which is not right. If the govt wants to protect us with our consent find so be it. If auto industry wants to give us safety options that great. The only thing that really gets me upset is that when the govt trys to control us or when auto industry like GM trys to regulate our driving. That so not right. The govt really needs to cut the crap with the “its for safety excuse” because thats BS. There intention behind it is basically control. As for GM they really need to trust the public more because there are responsible people out there. Not everbody drives crazy. The govt should offer us safety options and suggestions but they should not have the right what so ever to control us.

By Todd on Jun 26, 2008

Sorry if my past comment had spelling mistakes