Red-Light Camera Mistakenly Tickets Soldier Serving In Iraq
February 8th, 2008 Posted in Red-Light Cameras
The majority of people are at least somewhat uncomfortable with the idea of a machine like a red-light camera writing traffic tickets on its own. Realizing this, cities that install ticket cameras always assure concerned citizens that the tickets will not be automated and that an officer will look at each ticket that comes through and make sure that a mistake wasn’t made.
In theory, it sounds like a legitimate protection for motorists against unfair tickets.
In practice, because of the large volume of tickets that the cameras generate and limited staffing (to boost camera profitability), the officers supervising the ticketing process end up just trying to get through as many tickets as possible in the shortest amount of time.
This inevitably leads to simple errors that cause innocent people to spend hours in court fighting tickets that they would never have received had an actual officer been there to give the ticket instead of a machine.
King 5 News in Seattle, Washington uncovered an clear example of this in action:
Arnie Henyan knows all about those cameras and the tickets that come with them.
“The first one was dated May 28, and I got it in early June,” he said. “Three months later, I got another one… Early January, I received a third one, from the city of SeaTac. Same car, same plate.”
The tickets were issued to his son, who owns a 1998 Honda Coupe with the license 470-MOI. Arnie fought the tickets, insisting his son was innocent.
“I kind of laughed, because it’s an impossibility,” Henyan said. “He’s in Iraq. Has been since April.”
How did this happen three times with officers reviewing every ticket by hand?
So how did the sergeant get ticketed while at war?
If you look closely at the photo taken by the red light camera: the license plate is actually 470-MDI – not MOI. Officers approve all tickets before they go out. But both Lakewood and SeaTac misread the “D” for an “O.” And they missed another clue: The photos show a silver sedan running a red.
“It’s a silver car and my son’s is black. It’s a four-door car and my son’s is a two-door coupe,” Arnie Henyan said.
The defense offered by Lakewood Police Department:
Lakewood police say not all that car data is sent to them for the verification process.
“Our officers are approving hundreds of these every week,” said Lt. Heidi Hoffman, of Lakewood police. “I think it could improve if the verification system showed more complete vehicle registration data on the screen that our officers are using to process these citations.”
This is not acceptable.
If the police department doesn’t have the staff and resources to safeguard the public from unfair tickets, they should never have installed the cameras.
It’s easy for camera promoters to say, “Well, if you get an unfair ticket, you can always go fight it in court and it will be dismissed.” But in reality, there is a cost to an individual when they are forced to fight an unfair ticket. The process involves extra paperwork, a trip to court, and taking off time from work. That’s why many times people just decide it’s less of a hassle to write a check even when they’ve done nothing wrong.
The bottom line is that an innocent driver should never have to fix the government’s mistake. Especially not on their own time. And especially not when it could have easily been avoided if the city’s focus had been on safety instead of automatic revenue generators like red-light ticket cameras.
Image Credit: Dan4th
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37 Responses to “Red-Light Camera Mistakenly Tickets Soldier Serving In Iraq”
By Jonno on Sep 12, 2008
Its about time that we the motorists can claim damages from the Traffic authorities for bad tickets. That will make the authorities responsible, as it falls under the same situation of a business putting his thumb on the weighing scales in order to get an advantage. These government and private enterprise contracts have gone too far. Damn you cameras and governments and private enterprise and all you who prey on the common motorists.
By Eric on May 13, 2008
I have a very related story about my personal experience with being wrongfully ticketed by a camera. It is already on my blog here: http://www.farmdevil.net/?p=76
By joe b. on Mar 2, 2008
thank you to mr. young and the retired cop for confirming what I already highly suspected. there really is no hope. Give me liberty or death.
By Texas Cop on Feb 27, 2008
Sorry for the bad typing. Not a clerical position here.
By Texas Cop on Feb 27, 2008
In reference to JohnB. Keep in mind that our Constitution does not cover persons from outside the US, that are IN another country. If they are monitoring outside communications coming in from other countries, unless you are a terrorist, I wouldnt’ mind if they monitored a message somone might get from countries such as Iran, Turkey, Saudi Arabia, Somalia or anywhere else where extremeist seem to want to congregate. (Or maybe there are little black helicoptors flying overhead right now transmitting radio waves into your brain to see your thoughts.) However, if I may be so bold to remind you that this was a forum about Red Light Cameras. If there is such an outcry about it, do as was suggested earlier and go to your City government, demand hearings on the safety concerns that are brought up here. Some are very valid, some are persoanl in nature. I am very skeptical about them as well, but I am not a lunatic about it either. Just make sure you have your facts straight or the City attorney’s will eat you for lunch because that is their job. I do not disagree that it is a revenue generating machine. I’ve seen it here and been caught myself and help generate that revenue (yes even cops get tickets). There are a lot of freedoms being eroded away by governement and certain politicians, all in the name of making the streets safer, are making a lot of money from it. Too many liberal judges making their own laws from the bench and too many politicians, conservative and liberal alike, with their hands in someone elses pants and not doing the will of the people. But if you do want to make a difference there are a couple of ways to do it. Vote your conscience and be involved in your community, not just sit back and take it.
And like it or not, or “buy in to the tripe” that driving is a privilege. Try getting a license by failing the test and then claim it’s your constitutional right. It’s just the way it is, regardless of the most popular means of transportation or your own personal belief on the matter.
As far as other enforcement, most cops will enforce all of the ones mentioned, with the exception of the failing to pay close attention, or our acronym “DWHUA”. We ahven’t quite foudn a test for that yet. We suually ahve to wait until someone get run over before we realize that was actually the issue. If you or anyone here knows how to look at someone driving regularly that isn’t paying attention (except for the obvious of reading a book, putting on makeup, texting, turning around facing the rear to get something) we would really appreciate it. But if you really want to get a topic going, start a forum on talking on the cell phone and driving at the same time. There’s a free speech issue that should be addressed.
By flies dibber on Feb 21, 2008
If the purpose of redlight camera is to prevent accidents, why then, do they shorten the yellow light to change faster. How many more tickets do they generate for a 3 second yellow vs a 4 second yellow light. Maybe to generate more revenue.
Kirk, what planet did you come form?? Maybe you should go back, gather some data on “shortening yellow lights” and post that data on this site.
The cameras don’t ticket people who are in the intersection and still need make the turn when the light changes. By the way, in the intersection is not a half block away accelerating as fast as the car will accelerate and then going through the red light as someone going through the intersection on green (legally) gets slammed.
If our politicians want to know exactly how the general public feels about; then they should put the issue on an election ballot —- in a general election and see what people really want. Anti-camera votes would probably garner upwards of 30-35% of the vote!!!
By Baja Joes on Feb 19, 2008
I want a car with 2 cameras and a “black box”
One camera with a Forward view and another camera with a rear view. The “black box” will show my speed, seatbelt use, and any braking. Then if I get a ticket I can review the issue and if I’m guilty I’ll pay but if any of the above clears me I’ll fight till I’m broke! I almost forgot a most important point. Ialso want AUDIO, VERY GOOD AUDIO!
By Young driver on Feb 18, 2008
I just don’t understand it anymore. What has happened to everyone?? I can remember just 10 years ago we didn’t seem to have these kinds of problems. Now everyone has a problem with everyone else, suspects the worst and no one seems to want to take responsibility for their actions! It seems like we’re all falling apart! If you do something wrong (speeding, running a red light) then you should be punished no matter how they went about getting you your ticket. If you didn’t know the national speed limit or not to run a red light then you should not have gotten your license to begin with (we all have to pass that test). Stop complaining about how things have to be run. Times are changing and that is a result. Maybe it’s not safe for the officiers to walk the street anymore, we have done that to ourselves. They are just protecting themselves like we would do for ourselves. Maybe they have to hide because they know if we saw them that we would slow down and then speed up when we were out of their sights. I’ve seen it happen so many times. Haven’t we said that mankind is always evolving? Maybe this is just part of it. I believe that. Sure, there may be some bugs in the beginning. With new things there usually is. But then we learn how to fix it; with the cameras maybe they are coming up with a way for a clearer image. Who knows? I just believe that people should start taking responsibility for their actions and maybe stuff like the red light cameras wouldn’t be necessary.
By Kirk on Feb 16, 2008
To Ima Safedriver, I live in Southern California and it seems like no one signals anymore, and people seem to think it’s ok to tailgate. I wish more cops would write tickets for these law breakers. I don’t have any problems getting a ticket if an officer gives me a ticket because I know I made a mistake, it’s just those redlight cameras I don’t like.
By Kirk on Feb 16, 2008
If the purpose of redlight camera is to prevent accidents, why then, do they shorten the yellow light to change faster. How many more tickets do they generate for a 3 second yellow vs a 4 second yellow light. Maybe to generate more revenue.
By Ima Safedriver on Feb 16, 2008
As an officer too (seems like more cops on this site than anything else LOL!), what is the answer? Everyone here seems to bitch and complain but no one offers an answer. What should we do? How should we enforce the laws in the US? Remember, what matters to you may not be important to the next guy. John B is apparently upset by “following too close and failure to signal” I stopped a driver today for “failure to signal” and you’d thought I’d beat his wife and molested his child! He went off screaming and hollering like some Cops episode! The point is, what matters to you may not matter to the next person. If you want to make a difference complain to your elected people. Give them ideas to FIX the problem. Don’t just bitch!
By James Young on Feb 15, 2008
Carl Dapp writes:
{Oh, and J.Young…it’s been proven through years of tried and true research that speeding, or traveling above the speed limit in a certain areas (or any area, for that matter) would cause the severity of a crash to be magnified due to the harder impact.}
That isn’t the argument set forth by the safety Nazis, except as a last ditch effort to salvage it. Their argument is that higher speeds increase the frequency of crashes. Empirical evidence tells us otherwise.
The physics are not in question here. While it is true that higher speeds produce more kinetic energy than slower speeds, we have also created technological improvements to cars and roadways to mitigate the damage so that we could go faster. We have radial-ply tires, disc brakes, rack & pinion steering, halogen lighting, airbags, seat belts, interiors absent sharp edges and pointed objects, shatter-proof glass, etc. that allow much faster speeds. Likewise, we have divided roadways, median barriers, lateral guard rails, reflective paint, large signs, changeable message boards, collapsible barriers protecting crossover piers, halogen and sodium vapor lighting, limited access, fewer intersections, etc that were developed to promote faster travel.
Would you consider a crash in a 1952 Ford at 30 mph safer than a crash in a Volvo S80 at 60 mph? Is not the reduced exposure due to time reduced with higher speeds?
Note that higher speeds have a positive economic value. Slowing drivers down costs money, lots of it. The NMSL cost this nation a trillion dollars.
{ So whine all you want about LE and their toys…who’s doing what they’re not supposed to be doing? Don’t be upset that you got caught not doing what you were supposed to be doing.}
LE is supposed to “protect and serve,” but that has long since gone the way of the dodo. They are not supposed to be concentrating on enforcing bad laws.
By Carl Dapp on Feb 15, 2008
E.Meyers is out of his mind. There’s a loose cannon right there. Obviously doesn’t appreciate a true fascism if he thinks a red light ticket is a manifestation of that. WOW.
Oh, and J.Young…it’s been proven through years of tried and true research that speeding, or traveling above the speed limit in a certain areas (or any area, for that matter) would cause the severity of a crash to be magnified due to the harder impact. So whine all you want about LE and their toys…who’s doing what they’re not supposed to be doing? Don’t be upset that you got caught not doing what you were supposed to be doing.
By Rich on Feb 15, 2008
waiting to make a left turn… People gotta know that you pull to the middle of the intersection, [not wait behind the line]then when the oncoming traffic finishes you go. That way it doesn’t leave 5 cars in back of you stuck at the light.
By John B. on Feb 15, 2008
Just to correct “Texas Cop’s” remark regarding Mr. Bush evesdropping as being administered under the FISA court…That’s the problem, the Bush Administration BYPASSED the FISA Court. And Waco? Hmmm. A guy like Koresh practicing child molestation daily? Seems like a better use of police power than an evening checkpoint to me.
The overarching issue here is the slow death of our Constitutional Rights. First its seat belts, then its red light cameras, then its okay to do what next? All for a good cause — public safety. How can one argue with that?
Regarding the “privilege” of driving. I have never bought into that tripe. We HAVE to drive in the U.S. since public transit is so poor and the country is so vast. But since politicians have describe the activity as a privilege, they can abridge the Constitution and “take” it away administratively without due process. If its public safety that is the concern,focus should be on insuring skills are learned and practiced in driving. A 15 minute road test around the block just does not cut it for skills assessment.
Regarding Enforcement, why speeding and red light cameras? Because its EASY and LUCRATIVE. What about following too close, not paying full time and attention, camping out in the left lane obstucting traffic, vehicles in poor condition, overloaded vehicles, failure to signal, etc.?
By Texas Cop on Feb 13, 2008
Cudos for John Doe. I’ve been on the department for over 22 years, and it only gets worse about the complaining. I’m a detective now and we still hear the same complaints from people we investigate and put in jail pursuant to our investigations. We are in a no win situation, but it is our calling and we do the best we can. Good luck.
By Texas Cop on Feb 13, 2008
Hey guys, lighten up some. I am a cop, not retired, not a wanna be. In reading the posts here, there are some really good comments but a lot of crap as well. As in any profession, there are those that do a good job and those that should never have been given a badge and a gun. I have worked with several that fit into the last category, but most fit within the first. And yes, I have gotten tickets as well, once while on duty in another city in an unmarked car because of the actions of one of our officers that took his job extremely seriously without regard to anyones status in life, occupation, affiliation or whatever you want to call it. He was a traffic cop and that was his job….writing tickets. Most city cops are not traffic cops. We answer calls for service for any reason from a child misbehaving in school where the parents won’t take the respopnsibility to be parents to homicides. How diverse is your occupation in that respect? I am not so naive as to say that quotas don’t exist. But I can say that in my department, we have none. Some people tried once (which is illegal in Texas by the way) and the supervisors were punished by the administration and the officers told to write a certain number of tickets rebelled and refused to write any because it was wrong. Painting with a braod brush is a very dangerous game that most of you are doing on this site. Yes, there are bad cops, but the majority, at least 95% or more are the really good ones. Keep in mind as well, we don’t make the laws, but we took an oath to enforce them, whether we agree with them or not. And until the Supreme Court rules them unconstitutional or the legislators take the law off the books, it is our job to enforce it. Yes we do use some discretion on certain things so that not everyone goes to jail everytime they do something wrong, but if we need to we do. They are called tools. And keep in mind, most felons are taken off the streets due to traffic stops, so don’t just assume we are harrassing people to fill an imaginary wet dream of yours, we might actually be taking the burglar, robber, rapist, child molester or murderer off the streets that was on his or her way to your house.
I don’t particulary like the red light cameras either…they got me in my personal car once and I paid the fine (civil fine, not a traffic fine, there is a difference, look it up) because it was my responsibility. Is any system perfect? No, but right now it’s the best we have to try to slow down crashes at intersections. And contrary to some beliefs here, it does seem to be working some. Other local agencies hace seen a reduction in intersection crashes involving the running of red lights and the number of red light citations are actually going down to the point that it is costing their city more to run the cameras than it is bringing in to the city’s coffers, but they are keeping the cameras because, at least for this one city anyway, they seem to be working to the desired effect…traffic safety. My wife was involved in an intersection crash a few years back with my kids. She was hurt pretty bad in the hand and has some difficulty with some things, but generally ok. I wished that there was a red light camera there then. It would have actually shown what happened instead of the other driver lying and getting away with it.
Check with your local departments and see if they have any ride along programs. That was the best suggestion I have seen on this site so far. Here, we have a Citizens Police Academy. Civilians such as yourself go to some training put on by different officers and entities within the department and the prosecutors office and they have a ride along phase as well with various different officers. If you don’t have one, try to get one started. It has opened a lot of eyes to people who complained all the time, such as this site, and they are actually providing us support in different areas now as well becasue they actually know what we are doing now.
If some of you really want to be taken seriously, stay away from the name calling. We are not Gestapo agents or KGB. I was born in Texas and am an American. I will defend the Constitution to my death if need be. I actually went on vacation to Washington D.C this year and saw the constitution, Declaration of Independence and tons more history. It was very moving and the most inspirational vacation I have ever taken. But it reminds me of how broken our current politicians are who have forgotten the basic tenets of the Constitution. If you haven’t ever gone, you should do the same at least once in your life.
I would be more worried about politicians wanting to take away your rights before I would worry about the police doing it. In one of the examples given here, the Ruby Ridge, Florida and Waco incidents kept coming up. Did anyone catch the common denominator in those incidents? The Clinton’s and Democrats (Liberal’s actually). I know, I know, some will whine “What about the illegal eavesdropping of citizens by Bush and Cheney? Huh, what about that?” Read the law and the practices. It is being administered by FISA laws and it is concerning incoming communications from outside the US. Our constitutional rights do not extend past our borders, unless you live in an Embassy somewhere. But then again, your not talking about the police, your talking about politicians and government policies/treaties. Local police have nothing to do with that so why even bring it up in these forums?
Mr. Young is wrong on a few account in his response to “Dibber” Files. Again I can only speak for Texas law so it may be different in your areas. First, he’s partially correct in stating that the red light cameras are designed for people willfully running the red light, but also for people who accidentally run the red light as well. ROW violations knows no differnce in a crash. If you enter the intersection on a yellow (any part of your car, even the bumper), and then the light turns red, you have the right to proceed and clear the intersection and you have not technically ran the red light. I presume that was what he was talking about when he mentioned people that enter the intersection late. If not and he was saying that they entered the intersection late after the light turned red prior to them getting to the intersection, guess what, they ran the red light.
I do agree to some extent that the municipalities do look at revenue being generated by cameras, but as cited earlier, in at least one local city, those revenues have dramatically decreased because the violations have dramatically decreased in their intersections identified as “most dangerous”. Works for some, may not for others, so stay away from your over eagerness to condemn them all.
As far as “high mileage speeders”, we usually give about 10 mph over, except school zones then it’s about 5. Want to know what the difference is? Ask an emergency room doctor. Better yet, test it yourself. Find a parking lot, go at different speeds and try to stop at a certain point. Put up cones in front of your car, they represent people in a crosswalk. Apply your brakes at roughly the same place every time, but each time, gradually increase your speed by 5 or 10 mph. Maybe you will educate yourself on “what difference does it make”.
And being fair to “Dibber” Files, when he was describing various different things such as “high mileage speeders — people driving 90mph and thinking 55mph; people driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs; or people constantly running red lights” if you will notice he seperated each point with a semicolon, making different points but not necessarliy saying they were all related. He used proper grammar. (I teach report report wirting as well. Not perfect as you will most likely find typos in this thing. That’s because I am not a typist, but I do my best.)
Also, keep in mind that everyone has a different opinion on what is dangerous for them as opposed to someone such as yourself. Something I may think is perfectfly safe you may find to be outrageously dangerous (such as searching a house or building for a burglar) or the other way around (such as speeding, remember “what difference does it make”…yeah right). Try not to impose your thoughts on someone else and belittle them for what they believe. If you do, then you are taking away their rights in a free society to be a free thinker. Others would say that is a Liberal way of thinking…Remember the Clinton references earlier?
I also believe that in a lot of situations that Government over reaches it’s authority on things….smoking bans, cell phone bans, etc…I’m not a big fan of a big Government. That’s why there is a Second Amendment. If they do away with that Right, not a privilege sucha s driving, but a Right, then the next step will be similar to Germany in the 1930’s. (Look close, I said “they”, politicians and their wacked out activists who think they know what is good for me…sounds like some of you here on this thing, but I digress). Unfortunately, we still have to enforce unpopular laws from time to time. Just keep in mind, we don’t write them or enact them, but we get the blame anyway for something that is beyond our control.
Maybe next time you see a cop, instead of complaining, how about thanking him and shaking his hand. You might find we are made of flesh and blood too, with families and kids that love us very much. Go to a cops funeral that was killed in the line of duty. You will see something that you aren’t supposed to see. A bunch of ‘hardened” cops crying for a lost friend, or even someone we don’t know. And most are killed in traffic accidents involving all we have discussed here.
By John Doe on Feb 13, 2008
I am a police officer in suburban Detroit and I have my own opinion on the issue. I agree with many of the people who wrote regards to the fact that traffic enforcement can seriously harm law enforcements relationship with the community. I also agree with the fact that taking officers off of foot patrol and putting them cars has isolated them from the public to come degree. That being said, traffic enforcement it still has its place. You would not believe how many calls our office is flooded with by citizens demanding officers stop on their street and write violations to speeders. We have had more than one person stomp into our city council meetings demanding that officers sit on their street and write speeders. So an officer will go there and legitimately write speeders and those people will pop up on this site and call us the facist police, ofcourse alleging that they were stopped for going 1mph over the limit ect….ect… It is a really a no win position law enforcement.
I have only been a police officer for three years and have come to some serious realizations, with my live prior to law enforcement fresh in my memory. I have come to realize how far people will go to lie about their contact with a police officer. I used to hear growing up, how the “mean corrupt” officer stopped a poor sole for 1mph over the limit and issued him a ticket, or lied completely about how fast they were going just to make the revenue quotas. So I started on the job and regularly stopped legitimate violators, to only see them look me straight in the face and call me a liar. I firmly believe that people will convince themselves they are being victimized in attempt to avoid responsibility. People will argue over the color of the sky and insist it is purple.
I looked up my city on this site and found a few “speed traps” listed on there I know they were a result of me because im the only officer who sits is those spots. I found myself chuckling at what people said about it. I know in my heart that I stop people who are legitimately speeding (13+ over) and out of anger, these people will put anything up on a website to make the officer (myself) look bad. I guess an act of venting.
I have one last point I like to make. I have to admit I do not know what many other departments are like. I suppose there are a few departments throughout this country that put maximum pressure on officers to write tickets. And I will admit that there are some officers that do get a power trip over writing tickets. That being said, its not the overall truth. Most officers find traffic enforcement to be a nuisance. Many officers find writing tickets to be a boring job. There are very few academy recruits who think to themselves “I cant wait to get out on the streets and write people for 10 over”. No, they are out there for the excitement of the job. They want to catch the robbery suspect, or the car thief in progress. Im sorry, its the public’s own ignorance to assume that police officers sign for the job to write tickets.
I am convinced at this point that when people think of police officers, they think of Robo Cop, or Judge Dred, a person without emotion. Its not true in any way. The truth is, most people have no idea what a police officer’s job is like. They have not been there for one minute, but think they have it all figured out.
By Bill Belt on Feb 13, 2008
The “red light” tickets are not about law enforcement. It’s all about income for the cities. The people who are responsible are not really interested about law enforcement. Just take a look. There’s a sales persosn that is selling the cameras, equipment, etc. He’s a sales person just selling a product. He wants to sell more and more. Then there is the city council person that sees revenue. She does not care where the money comes from, just as long as the city coffers have their share. Then there’s the police chief. His story is always, “We don’t have enough officers”. Then there is the police offier who would rather spend time operating a radar gun than patrolling the streets and ticketing real red light runners. Then there’s the public. Very few will show an interest by attending public hearings on matters such as this. Then there are the reviewers of the photos. Apparently they can’t tell the difference between a “number” and a “letter”. I couldn’t either from some of the samll fuzzy photos I have seen as taken from the red light cameras. Is all this a mess–or what!!!!Where are the true “professionals” when it comes to matters such as this? Why can’t city government get back to absics in running city government and why can’t police department get back to basic police enforcment?
By Baja Joes on Feb 11, 2008
As a retired person I would value a “ride-along” with the police or CHP in an attempt to understand the situations faced by our law enforcement officers. Can the local CHP or law enforcement officers help us understand the challenges faced during the couse of their shift. What procedures are faced during their day/nite shift that will assist us as civilians to understand their tour of duty and help us to understand them in their meetings. Respectfully always, Joe Schuessler
By Chuck on Feb 11, 2008
Some great comments, I especially liked the post from the retired PO from Long Island.
I had an eye-opening experience with a good friend who is a Sargeant with a PD in a city of approx 100,000 in So. Cal. He took me on a “ride along” through his entire shift and I got to see first hand how he dealt with stressful situations, really bad people, unfortunate / poor people, average citizens, and conflicting priorities.
Most cities have community outreach programs that allow citizens to participate in a ride-along and I highly recommend it if you want to see what it’s really like.
By John B. on Feb 11, 2008
Where does it all end? Primary seat belt enforcement laws, red light cameras, speed cameras, roadblocks, car seat checks, etc., etc.! Every time you turn around the government is sticking its nose in your business further and further. The cameras are just a way of “taxing” the public in the name of public safety. In Knoxville, TN, if you contest the ticket and lose, you pay court costs and get a point on your license. If you pay, you just get tagged for $50. What does that tell you? Its not about justice, its about the $50. For the record, I don’t see the big “epidemic” in red light running anywhere. Where do the stats come from? I’ll bet the studies are poorly controlled and the data are spurious at best.
Seat belts. Where is the “compelling PUBLIC interest?” Don’t tell me about the lost work days etc. due to injuries, because the flu is even more dangerous in this regard. How about compelling people to get the flu shot and if they don’t and get the disease, fine them $500? The argument for the “public good” is no different.
Car seats. Now the government is taking my child to raise. I am a fan of the seats, don’t get me wrong, but government enforcement? I think not.
Roadblocks. There is a basic presumption of guilt here - especially when you LEGALLY avoid the roadblock and get snagged by the “wolf in weeds.” What happened to the Constitution? Oh, I forgot, driving is a PRIVILEDGE not a right. That little distinction is the camel’s nose under the tent that permits all sorts of transgressions against law abiding citizens.
A while ago my daughter was harassed by a patrol cop because she got up from bed and went and picked up a friend that over imbibed at a local bar. She was in her pajamas with a coat on and got grilled about her travels. She finally demanded that she be taken to a location where an certified BAC could be collected whereupon the officer (to his credit) dropped the issue. When asked why she was stopped, the cop said she “rolled through a stop sign.” That’s funny, since she saw him fall in behind her and was double careful to obey all traffic signals and signs. Fact is the cop lied to secure probable cause for the stop. Cops regularly lie to justify their unlawful acts and secure convictions (I’ve seen it on more than one occassion). So much for being responsible and doing the right thing. We need to end these Gastapo like tactics.
In short, its really all about the money. Not safety. How about if they just triple the fines and drop entry of all but the most egregious violations into driving records. I’m sure most will just pony up as a cost of driving. If safety is really the concern, you would see more tickets written for improper lane changes, following too close, not paying full time and attention, vehicles that are in poor repair, etc.
By Joe on Feb 10, 2008
James, I’m not sure Mr “ “Dibber” Flies” is capable of ingesting all the facts available on this NMA web site as well as the fountains of information on other sites that contradicts his simplistic view about red lights and speeding. This is the same kind of guy who will tell the government to take all his rights away to protect him. Everybody else is an idiot except them. I’ve known a couple of these type guys at work with a similar mentality. I’ve also had the opportunity to observe their driving from time to time and they are among the worst drivers. At age 61 once in my lifetime I may have seen one driver travel 90 mph or more. Some people like to dramatize. Oh and while your at it Mr. Dibbler, check out http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/22/2214.asp entitled “Louisiana: Parade Goers Seek to End Traffic Cameras”.
By James Young on Feb 10, 2008
Dibber Flies writes:
{Second, running red lights has become a bad epidemic in our country and it has to be stopped!!}
That’s just not true. There has been no significant increase in red-light violations nor in crashes resulting from a ROW violation. The overwhelming majority of red-light violations are for the vehicle that entered the intersection late and gets caught part way across, not the people who willfully ignore such lights.
{ Unfortunately, police departments and cities do not have enough resources or money to post officers at each traffic light; so there needs to be a better way to enforce it. Cameras provide that opportunity.}
Red light cameras are not a deterrent because the disconnect between the act and the notification of it can be months. Camera systems are sold by private companies on the basis of revenue generated for the municipality willing to prostitute themselves.
{But, we have had enough of high mileage speeders — people driving 90mph and thinking 55mph; people driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs; or people constantly running red lights to pick up that half-minute.}
What is a “high mileage speeder”? Upwards of 90% of drivers will exceed the limit during their drives, but at what point do they become “high mileage speeders”? 20K miles a year? 50K miles a year? More? And more importantly, what difference does it make?
Second, you conflate speeders – which is essentially everybody – with impaired drivers (alcohol and drugs) and with drivers deliberately violating a ROW rule.
{None of us have any God given rights to endanger the lives of our fellow citizens!!!}
Of course, that is true. However, you appear to be very confused as to what acts create what degree of danger.
By "Dibber" Flies on Feb 10, 2008
I read some of these comments on traffic light cameras — and am really surprised at some of the idiots who post here!!
First off, you - or NO ONE - has a right to run traffic lights; not a right promised by the constitution, or a God giver right. You might have someone’s blessing to go out and kill yourself in a car, but, for God’s sake, just drive the car off a cliff. DON’T JEOPARDIZE SOME INNOCENT CITIZEN BY RUNNING A RED LIGHT!!!!
First off, running a red light is like playing Russian Roulette with 5 bullets in the gun — your chances of winning are dim.
Second, running red lights has become a bad epidemic in our country and it has to be stopped!! Unfortunately, police departments and cities do not have enough resources or money to post officers at each traffic light; so there needs to be a better way to enforce it. Cameras provide that opportunity. And, I think cities/states should put the camera question on an election ballot and see what support it gets in an election —- I’d guess 60-75% of the people would support them. I will support them for both running red lights and for speeding — as will most of the populace of our great nation!!! And, yeah, someone will make a profit creating the cameras (as do the people who make radar detectors)!! That happens in a free enterprise country.
I am not an active or retired police officer, but I support them all — even when they are writing me a speeding ticket (yep, I am not a cherry on that).
But, we have had enough of high mileage speeders — people driving 90mph and thinking 55mph; people driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs; or people constantly running red lights to pick up that half-minute.
None of us have any God given rights to endanger the lives of our fellow citizens!!!
Dibber Flies - a concerned citizen