Motorists Forced To Let Officers Draw Blood Samples At DUI Stops
October 16th, 2007 Posted in Breathalyzers, DUI/DWI
There have been an increasing number of police departments allowing their officers to draw blood samples from motorists under suspicion of a DUI/DWI. This takes place on the roadside as opposed to a hospital where there are trained medical professionals. It seems like a recipe for disaster to allow officers to do blood draws when they do not have adequate medical training. This has proven true in Arizona recently where a lawsuit has been filed to stop this practice.
According to Scripps News, a man developed a persistent infection at the site of a blood draw administered by a Pima County sheriff’s deputy. He has filed what is believed to be the first claim in Arizona against the practice, which could put local taxpayers on the hook for any damages.
Arizona law requires that drunken driving suspects submit to a test or lose their license for a year and it’s the officer’s choice, not the driver’s, whether to use a breath or a blood test.
Having officers draw blood has become more common recently because it makes it more difficult for people to defend themselves against DUI/DWI charges. Breathalyzers have proven to be wildly inaccurate and don’t hold up well in court so blood tests have become a more appealing option legally. But when dealing with a medical procedure like a blood draw, the focus should be on the well-being of the individual and not making sure the District Attorney can get a conviction. Officers without adequate medical training should not be playing around with people’s health, no matter the legal ramifications.
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I lived and worked in Moscow for about 2.5 years. Traffic police did have the legal right to draw blood at the side of the road. Smart people carried their own sealed and sterile needle pack in the glovebox. I was never stopped for that reason, though I was stopped several times for the “papers please” excuse.
Regards,
Jim Walker
Can you say the Nazi’s have arrived? Here is how you control this fire the city council and your state reps. Then fire the Nazi Police Chiefs using this process. Unemployment can be a “common sense” awakening. Take the country back from the Nazi’s.
Phil,
I know, sometimes I have to laugh, There is a complete lack of common sense out of some people sometimes, Just think for a moment, just a moment, People, Do you really believe that officers are jumping at the chance to stick a needle into a complete strangers arm ON THE SIDE OF THE ROAD and exposing themselves and their families to H.I.V., HEPATITIS C, and a host of other diseases that can be transmitted through someone’s blood. Sure, I bet they sit you down on the hood of their patrol car and with a flashlight in one hand and the needle in the other…they go at it. How great is that. Bet, they put the blood in their lunch boxes to keep it cool until they can get it to a laboratory.
I bet them crazy lock them up officers are standing in line for that opportunity.
Oh, one last thing. Phil, I haven’t read the great “traffic justice program” but one thing you mentioned, you hear it on radar detector commercials a lot, Now listen closely people, Come on move closer to your monitor…I’m about to give you a little secret for free…
Speeding Ticket costs are divided up into two categories, the fine and the cost of court, This B#$# S&^%. Site tells you they will pay your “fine” if you are found guilty. Now, the “fines” on speeding tickets are somewhere between $10.00 dollars and $25.00 dollars or so, depending on how fast you were going….but the cost of court is somewhere between $110.00 and $125.00 dollars. Sure they will all pay your “fine” but you will have to pay court costs.
I know you don’t believe that but call, call your courthouse, clerk’s office, anything and ask them about a “fine” for a ticket and “court costs” for that ticket.
If you believe anything posted on this site by N.M.A. then you are truly a fool, think for yourselves people, question what doesn’t make sense, don’t be a victim and don’t believe everything you read…
Andrew writes(People, Are you that dumb? Really, Do you believe everything you read on these Bullshit Websites and Forums? Do you really believe that cops are pulling out needles on this side of the road and taking peoples blood. Do you really believe that? If you do….
Then I’m trying to set up a fund to completely wipe out all the DWI Laws in all states…Please send me $50.00 dollars along with your credit card numbers to…..)
save yourself the trouble they have all drank the NMA Kool-aid. Have you read the traffic justice program? that is good for a laugh. NMA asserts that they were formed to protect the rights of American Drivers. If you join and you get a ticket, go to trial and get found guilty, they will pay your fine. How does that program, of promoting careless and neglegent behavior in NMA members, protect my rights as a driver?
People, Are you that dumb? Really, Do you believe everything you read on these Bullshit Websites and Forums? Do you really believe that cops are pulling out needles on this side of the road and taking peoples blood. Do you really believe that? If you do….
Then I’m trying to set up a fund to completely wipe out all the DWI Laws in all states…Please send me $50.00 dollars along with your credit card numbers to…..
James Young writes(Save a cop from hypocrisy; revoke speed limits now!)
Save yourself from hypocrisy James obey the posted limit and don’t give the police a reason to write you a ticket. Revoke the speed limits? How ridiculous that would be we need speed limits to bring speeds into close deviations of the mean speed if for no other reason than more people will be traveling at or close to the lowest risk area of the curve.
By James Young on May 28, 2008
Charlie writes:
{To deny that a group of individuals who are put into harms way, should naturally bond for the sake of self preservation is not being realistic.}
Let’s call professional courtesy what it is: hypocrisy. If the law is truly as necessary for the public safety as its proponents claim, then those who violate it should be treated equally under that law, without regard to employment status. OTOH, if the law is not applicable to some drivers then it should be applicable to no drivers.
______________________________________________
Listen, I never stated that I shouldn’t have been taken in, or charged, I was refering to how I was treated (Like a thug), I did 31 yrs. on the Chicago Police dept. and there is NO way I should have been cuffed and thrown around by the police the way they did after knowing who I was.
As it has been pointed out already. a licensed paramedic is called to the scene to do the blood draw. It has also been pointed out that it takes 3-5 days for blood test results. If that is the case I feel the suspected drunk driver should be put in jail or post a bond that night pending the results.
Why should a person have to go to jail w/o any proof that he has committed a crime? It sounds like you want to take away the rights, our men & women are getting killed for every day….
Though there are many good Cops out there, there are to many that feel it is ok to brake the law, to do their job….
Learn the Facts writes: {Did you know that 80% of those people using marijuana and consuming alcohol kill “innocent lives”. }
James Young responds(Hmmm. Since 20 million Americans have tried marijuana within the last year and 80% of them have killed “innocent lives” — we’re ignoring the guilty people that they have killed for the moment – that means that some 16 million people have killed at least one innocent each. This must come as a terrible shock to demographers who study mortality since it is nearly 1,000 times the number of total homicides in a given year.
I believe you need to revisit wherever you got those assertions.)
Although I feel his statement may not be factual, I don’t feel you did a proper analysis of it. Your analysis lacks the variable of those using marijuana and consuming alcohol killing an innocent life at a point beyond the end of the year. You also failed to include that he said “innocent life” not “innocent HUMAN life”.
I think you need to revisit your analysis.
I think that the NMA has actually mae a mistake in thier reporting here. For years many states have had statutes that say an officer can compell a test of the suspects BAC by testing his breath or his blood. That doesn’t mean the officer draws the blood. If the NMA is suggesting that police officers that are not minimally trained as an EMT are actually drawing blood from suspects I’d like to view the data of these draws and know where they are happening. I do know that many Police officers are actually trained EMTs and are trained in giving injections and drawing blood. I can’t imagine that a Police Department or other municipal entity would even suggest that untrained officers perform a blood draw given today’s propensity of people to sue and the liability of allowing such an action would bring forth.
‘Can’t help but noticed that (James Green) case was dismissed.
Hey, “loved one is dead”
Those who would sacrifice freedom for security deserve neither – Benjamin Franklin
Allowing officers to draw blood on the side of the road is just a plain stupid idea and it does not prevent drunk driving. What it does do is endanger the public and opens the doors for more law suits against the city.
If you are dumb enough to drink and drive, then the maximum penalty is the only thing you should be expecting.
How much are you willing to pay in sales,income,& property taxes to house the people that go to jail/prison….In my state the cost of housing an inmate is about $60,000/year…..I’d rather spend my tax money on education, then housing DUI’s
in reference to police drawing blood i think it needs to happen everywhere wait till its your loved one that is dead because of the choice a drunk made to get behind the wheel so dont tell me about your crap and your feelings that cops should not draw blood we have to do something to stop the jerks getting drunk and driving
Why does it need to be done at roadside…Having the officer take the person to a hospital is a much better way to do it…..It is the cheapest,& safest way to do it….
Besides the fact that I find this to be against the basic premise of the Constitution. I also have another thought.
Lets say you were at Party and you took a hit of a joint.
About a week later your driving down the road and get pulled over.
You had nothing to drink or smoke but if you gave your blood it would show marijuana in your system with no relation as to WHEN it entered your system, only that it was in there.
I guess the end result is ,,, your still busted.
Just a thought.
FIRST COP THAT ATTEMPTS THIS IS GOING TO BE STAYING IN A HOSPITAL BED FOR A LONG TIME…..AND LET HIM PRAY THAT IS ALL HE GETS
More important than the unsterile conditions, there is the problem with checks and balance. Those other than the officers who stopped the driver should draw the blood; not the officers. That does not allow for checks and balances which is inherit to fairness under the law. This demand should be made by the people. if people don’t get involved and demand the us constitution be strictly enforced we will loose our rights and what about all the millions of lives who have been lost and are being lost today… get involved and demand out federal constitution. be upheld.
The medical profession is being flushed down the tubes.
Charlie writes:
{To deny that a group of individuals who are put into harms way, should naturally bond for the sake of self preservation is not being realistic.}
Let’s call professional courtesy what it is: hypocrisy. If the law is truly as necessary for the public safety as its proponents claim, then those who violate it should be treated equally under that law, without regard to employment status. OTOH, if the law is not applicable to some drivers then it should be applicable to no drivers.
Save a cop from hypocrisy; revoke speed limits now!
Steve: “Charlie: Welcome to the club.Us citizens consider “Professional Courtesy” to be a double standard.”
You may consider “Professional Courtesy” a double standard, and maybe it is.
To deny that a group of individuals who are put into harms way, should naturally bond for the sake of self preservation is not being realistic.
Firemen, Soldiers, Police are all in professions where their lives are dependent on each other, at least it is in Chicago. The hick town police out here in Arizona must never of grasped that concept.
In Chicago if you are a police officer who has a reputation of screwing over other officers and their family members, you better tread lightly on the street, because if you get in the middle of trouble and have to call for help, it might not be coming as fast as you would think.
Mack’ has a great point- if breatherlyzers aren’t good enough, well I suppose the states are going to have to reverse all those convictions for DUI using breatherlyzers and give everybody their money back, right? Either the breatherlyzer meets the standards of proof for DUI or it does not. If it does it should be sufficient, if it does not it should be banished from the courtroom.
You’ve got to wonder what the motivation is for Arizona to do this. All the other states revoke plenty of drunk drivers and make plenty of money with the breatherlyzer, and have for a long time. If they are having problems getting enough convictions then maybe 1)fewer people are driving drunk, which is the intention or 2)there is some problem with the way they are using the breatherlyzer, which should be corrected before they resort to other methods. I wonder, are drivers given an option of confessing to drunken driving in lieu of the blood draw? Are they using people’s fear of needles to obtain confessions? If this practice was legitimate, the police would be willing to hire a nurse or licensed phlebotomist for the blood draws, but that would take away some of the fear factor and the cops wouldn’t like it at all if a nurse told them blood draw wasn’t advised on a particular patient and refused to do it.
Vampiress has it right, drawing blood properly can be difficult even for a doctor in a hospital, and no one but a licensed professional should attempt it. The medical community in Arizona has a duty to weigh in on this unsafe practice of allowing police officers with minimum training to do it, on the side of the road on patients in unknown condition. Any policeman who does this is a dangerous fool. Cops have this psychological effect going, where they start to believe they are experts on everything they have observed and know more about everyone else’s business than they do. Once in municipal court I watched a youth receive a light sentence for pot-smoking, and the arresting officer protested, ran into a back room and came back with a law book, and started hollering at the judge that the sentence wasn’t strong enough and this here book proves it. He’s lucky the judge didn’t throw him in jail himself. Maybe because police know they have the power to arrest doctors and nurses, they believe they are somehow superior to them and better able to do their jobs?
I’m allergic to needles and could die if such materials are entered into my veins. I also know a lot of good attorneys.
I really wonder if a cop would let an average person draw blood them i don’t think so. So why should we let them do it to us?
I’m a certified medical phlebotomist and I do blood draws all day long. Drawing blood is an aquired skill that takes alot of practice. I wonder how many times the officer is allowed to stick before they give up? If they clean the site with alchohol and it does not dry COMPLETELY, it will alter test results. In fact, at the hospital where I work, if we have orders to do a coma panel, we don’t clean the site at all for fear of altering test results.
How about those individuals who cannot have blood drawn for various reasons including a mastectomy or fistulas??? This could lead to some serious complications!! If they want to draw blood, they should be properly trained to do so. Even nurses and doctors have problems drawing blood. I say leave it to us vampires. The police should just bring the person to the hospital and have the blood drawn there.
Don’t forget, the police officer is also in danger when drawing blood, especially from an intoxicated person. We Phlebos usually help each other out in those situations (holding arms for each other) as there is a high risk of being poked. I wonder also about the equipment supplied to the officers…….if they only have large gage needles. Some people need tiny needles ( butterfly system ) or the site may need to be pre-warmed. Sometimes we have to draw from a foot because no other site is suitable. Anyhow, seems too complicated and risky for both police and the citizen.
i was pulled over for speeding, in texas. the state trooper, said he smelled marijauna, I then had to exit the vehicle. After being put through all six tests, the officer,stated that, i had hesitated one second, on my turn, and that my eye twitched. i was arrested, and given the choice, of either take the blood test, or lose my license, right then. i chose to not take the blood test. i for one dont want my blood being tested, when a cop, is just out for a dwi arrest. In texas, state troopers, are rewarded for the actual arrest, not any ensuing conviction. quite simply, because the officer said he smelled pot, but FOUND NOTHING, ON MYSELF, OR MY VEHICLE.
There is no middle ground here, you can object however you want, for whatever reason you want, if you refuse the blood test, it will cost you, a dwi arrest, a night in jail, and roughly three thousand dollars, to fight and beat the criminal charge. that was very cheap, by the way. So take heed. even if the actual dwi case is dismissed, you will still lose your license, for a minimum of eight months. period, if you live in texas. It is purely about the money, and the revenue from these cases, that matter to the state, not your rights
This is a joke, right? Drawing blood on the side of the road?
This HAS to be a joke.
“I was stationed in germany when i was in the military and the german police didnt play i mean they would beat you down infront of everyone if you were out of line. I mean no one messed with the cops there b/c there was still fear and respect”
Did you sleep through history class, or what?
Let me clue you in…Germany…two World Wars…millions of people killed…untold damage to the environment…ramifications still being dealt with even today, nearly 70 years after the last one.
And you respect their system?
Well Charlie, even if your a former PO I wouldn’t wish that treatment on anybody. But it may serve a purpose in that you now know how many of us normal citizens can be treated. And you don’t need to be drunk anymore to experience this treatment. See; http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/21/2101.asp and http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/20/2067.asp
It shouldn’t make any difference regardless if you a PO or not. No citizens deserves to be treated that way. It’s another reason police are so resented in some circles. Some police officers are just plain mean spirited. As long as things are peaceful there’s no reason for anybody to be roughed up. You might expect that in a third world country but not in the good ‘ole USA. My biggest beef is that there never seems to be anyway to get rid of the bad officers except in extreme cases.
This is amazing to me that some untrained person be allowed to draw Blood from a person that is according to the Law is “presummed innocent”. The first time I heard about this practice I was very Upset that this be allowed. I think everyone should get a copy of the US Constitution and prepare themselves for any such situation, like this one, against all inappropriate practices that the “Authorities” may use on the Public. Another point, Please Please report this to the FDA. I am sure they would want to know about this… We can’t fight City Hall….but the Federal Government can. Our Civil Liberties must be upheld… and not be bullied by Overzealous Authorites playing Politics or Self Serving Motivations.
I never stated we should be feared only respected.
Charlie what happend to you is BS i would of never done that to a retired officer, some states are messed up.
Respect is earned not just given..I know quite a few PO’s that I respect because they have earned my respect…There are others I have met that I wouldn’t spit to save their lives, as they are not worth the effort…
If you must break the law to be a PO you are in the wrong job.. Any violation of a persons rights is a violation of the laws of the land..
Officer Josh: Thinking that people should be scared of the cops is BS.
Charlie: Welcome to the club.Us citizens consider “Professional Courtesy” to be a double standard.
Tac-Medic: You don’t want to know what I think of the HRT and the FBI after the children they killed at Waco.
A cop, judge, or lawyer will NEVER take a DUI test. You may loose your license for a while, but if you get a DUI you’re going to loose it anyway. This way you don’t have a record for DUI and you get your license back just as quick or sooner.
My name is Charlie, and 1st off I’m not any police hater, considering I’m a retired Chicago Homicide detective, now living in Arizona.
I was stopped on Memorial Day weekend last year and the officers who were working their day off on a DUI task force stopped for an improper turn at a street light.
I immediately identified myself as a retired officer (since I carry a concealed weapon, as per federal law) when the officer wanted me to do some balancing act of standing on one foot with my hands in front of me, and then bend halfway down to the ground I just laughed at him, I’m 62 yrs. old, 80 lbs overweight and have bad knees and ankles.
I explained that I physically couldnt do what he requested and probably haven’t been for the last 25 years. His response was to throw the handcuffs on me, and then throw me head first into the back of an unpadded step van they use for transport.
So much for professional courtesy, or even common sense, how many officers have ever been attacked by retired P.O.s ???
If the federal government has enough respect for retired officers that they passed a law so we can continue to carry our weapons for protection, I would at least expect the same courtesy for a fellow officer, I got none.
Well the long and the short of it is the officer went and got a warrant (took him 4 hours), came back, and to my amazement, personally took my blood (in Chicago any taking of blood, breath, or DNA evidence from a suspect must be done by a third party to avoid conflict of interest).
I was then given all my stuff back, no ticket, no summons, nothing, 6 months later I get a summons for a DMV hearing to suspend my license for failing to take the breath, that case was dismissed.
Now, a few days ago, I get notified by my attorney that they are now filing DUI charges against me, 8 months later, what kind of nonsense is this, it doesn’t take 8 months to process the blood, it takes on about 3 weeks, something stinks here!
The police out here (Arizona)are not like the ones in Chicago, they all act like automaton Robo-Cops, and common sense and compassion doesn’t seem to be in their training.
Sorry to say, but if I was driving by and saw a couple of these officers getting their asses kicked, I would have think twice about pulling my pistol and coming to their aide, on second thought, I would come to thier aide, because it is ingrained in my soul to be the “Police”, which I guess they will never understand.
What happened to you, should have never happened to anyone..Think of what they would have done to John Q. Public. I was thinking of moving out that way, but I think I stay east of the muddy Miss river…
Learn the Facts writes: {Did you know that 80% of those people using marijuana and consuming alcohol kill “innocent lives”. }
Hmmm. Since 20 million Americans have tried marijuana within the last year and 80% of them have killed “innocent lives” — we’re ignoring the guilty people that they have killed for the moment – that means that some 16 million people have killed at least one innocent each. This must come as a terrible shock to demographers who study mortality since it is nearly 1,000 times the number of total homicides in a given year.
I believe you need to revisit wherever you got those assertions.
If AZ makes 1000 DUI arrests, I would bloody well hope that ALL–not many–are consuming alcohol.
You mention pot. Fact is that a British tv reporter did a test not too long ago that showed a person actually performed better in a controlled driving test AFTER smoking marijuana, than they did straight.
And then you try to tell me that 80% of the people who mix weed and booze cause fatal accidents?! At that rate it would take about a week and a half to eliminate all the stoners in the state. Methinks you are the one smoking too much.
Arizona makes 1000 DUI arrests a month. Out of those people that are arrested, many are consuming alcohol and using marijuana. The Breath Analyzer only detects alcohol level content and DOES NOT detect drug use. It isn’t the Police Officer drawing blood on the susptected DUI driver at the scene, it is a trained and licensed Paramedic citizen. If you refuse drawing blood at the scene; they will allow you to have it drawn at the Police Station or hospital. It will take approximately three – five days to receive your blood results back. The Phoenix Police Department will be hiring additional Manpower and Toxiocologists for the new DUI Task Force.
Did you know that 80% of those people using marijuana and consuming alcohol kill “innocent lives”.
Aren’t you tired of having those people make the choice to drive drunk; killing or causing car accidents for innocent people. (I know I am). It’s time to make the choices for those that think they can drive drunk. We have a lot cleaning up ahead of us.
I would let the cop draw my blood, then contest the evidence as being tainted by the alcohol swabbing procedure. Then I would sue the city and make $50k. So no DUI, and some extra $$ in my pocket. Sounds like a good night out drinking to me!
Actually the black and white part you looking for lawstudent 10 varies state by state. I dont know what states do it but ive heard that some do. Also you can refuse a blood test or breathalizer if you want to that is completely in your right. Honestly and here’s a good hint for you drunk drivers; if you get pulled over and you think your gonna fail the breathalizer test, refuse it. It automatically admitts your guilty but its harder to prove in court that you were drunk, bottom line it might get you a better sentence. If i got pulled over and i knew i would fail i would refuse and hope for the best with the judge.
Also for the blood test question by lawstudent10 about probable cause. You are usually under arrest by the time you take the blood test b/c you most likely already failed the breathalizer. The blood test is done after to basically back up the evidence. The probable cause is easily done by whatever reason you pulled the person over. I mean there are alot of test performed b4 we do the breathalizer. We must build up the probable cause b4 we breathalize you ie: field sobriety test and prerequisite measures, talking to you all these are used against you in court.
Seriously LawStudent10, I’ve always wondered about that in regard to implied consent laws. A breathalyzer is forcing me though the coercion of losing my license to perform an act the express purpose of which is to provide evidence against myself. Sounds like a pretty clear-cut 5th Amendment violation.
A blood draw on the other hand, even though it falls under the same implied consent laws, is more of an intrusive search of one’s person and requires only passive participation of the person. So it looks like the 4th would be more applicable.
I’m not a lawyer; my entire legal education consists of two semesters of business law and a season of Ali McBeal. I’m just spouting my opinion.
LawStudent10
You sound like one of them criminal-coddling lawyers always talkin’ about “rights” and the Con-sty-tu-shun. Look, if Officer Josh says you need to be searched, then you need to be searched. How else is he gonna know what to arrest you for? Judges playing Monday morning quarterback second guessing the cop on the street is what’s wrong with this country. Now get your papers in order before Officer Josh tazes your ass.
Disclaimer: That was satire.
The Fourth Amendment:
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
I read through all of the e-mails/ comments and am currently writing a memo on this subject. What I want to know is where in the law gives officers the right? Not being sarcastic at all. What statute will I find this under? I need something in black and white that tells me Officers have the right to administer a blood test and if someone does not submit their license is taken away for one year, I also would like to know whether or not you have to be placed under arrest before the blood test and if there needs to be probable cause or exigent circumstances for an officer to do this? Anyone that can answer this for me or point me in the right direction would be appreciated very much.
The whole thing just seems WRONG?
The Fourth Amendment does say “persons” I would assume that blood is part of your person right?
Anyway guys were off the subject, i actually agree that we shouldnt be able to draw blood at the time of the stop. Personally i dont want to, too many issues tha could accur.
Hubcap,
Haha your hilarious man first of all im not going to just beat someone down for pissing me off, and dont say we wont get caught cuz ive seen alot that have and get in alot of trouble. You sound like an Anarchist “You are a perfect example of why it is no longer enough in this country to just question authority. Authority must be mocked, ignored and ultimately destroyed”. no law and order and if you delt with the people i deal with on a regular basis you would change your tune. To the normal somewhat law obiding citizen we are too rough or too intimidating but if you delt with the scum of the earth day in and day out you would approach situations on a more dominant or aggressive level. Why? cuz you have to, if you show fear or compation at first you will get hurt and/or die. when you approach a situation you have to establish your dominance or you will get taken advantage of…..Anyway im off track. Back to the rediculousness. I see what your saying some police give us a bad name but its not the majority but i cant tell you that b/c your only 1 sided. I’m not saying i should be able to beat people down at will (although it would be nice at times…lol.) but that if i say hey dont this or that…you should NOT DO THAT instead of saying F..U cop/pig…or whatever. If say get off the corner GET OFF THE CORNER dont make me make you get off the corner. Maybe you live in a suburb or small town so you dont understand i dont know but its fun chating about things with you,lol.
I thought breathalizers were good enough for life imprisonment, or they are for the campus police(Highway Patrol) in Waco. Look who showed up to enforce this: George Bush waiting on DPS and Baylor Bigot Judges.
You should stick to trying to erase DPS forever records for these eroneous traffic stops and enfiringments. They trash them after 3 years anyway.
Now we have Highway Patrol as lobbyist and pretend Sheriffs and you never see them on the interstate anymore.
Officer Josh complains that “there is no fear and respect in the U.S. for cops and this is a big problem.”
No, you are the problem. It must be nice to have a job if someone pisses you off you can just beat the shit out of them and know you will never face any consequences, except for maybe a few days of “administrative leave”.
And you want even more power? Dude, don’t worry about people not fearing the police, you are one scary motherfucker.
Why should anyone respect you? Because you have a gun? You are simply an instrument of excessive government power run amuck.
You are a perfect example of why it is no longer enough in this country to just question authority. Authority must be mocked, ignored and ultimately destroyed.
If you want more power, why don’t you move to Saudi Arabia? You would probably fit right in with their Religious Police. There you can put the beat down on someone for not being dressed properly or listening to the wrong music. Allah will love you for it.
[...] Motorists Forced To Let Officers [...]
Well Officer, handcuff me,it won’t be the first time I”ve worn them. Though I’ll admit before it was for umm…fun.
Officer Josh, your statements about German law are incorrect. A driver suspected of drinking under the influence is required to take a blood test administered by a doctor working for the Polizei department. It is NOT administered by an officer on site. At the arrest time, the driver is given a breathalyzer.
Ha ha this is great i mean people love the police until they get in trouble. I dont totally like the idea of drawing blood myself nor does my state do it but i have a friend that his state does and he must go through a class tought by nurses and must pass a written and practical exam. People just dont have respect for police and the laws are geared for the violator and not the police i mean alot of cops are afraid to do there job since we can now get sued so easily. I was stationed in germany when i was in the military and the german police didnt play i mean they would beat you down infront of everyone if you were out of line. I mean no one messed with the cops there b/c there was still fear and respect. there is no fear and respect in the U.S. for cops and this is a big problem. Honestly in germany they take your blood right there when they pull you over. We were briefed that if we did get pulled over that it would be a good idea to give blood if they ask because they would litterally beat it out of you if you refuse. Thats the truth no exageration on that. All im saying is give us our police powers back!
[...] case, the officers inflicted permanent physical damage on the suspect. There’s also a case pending in Arizona where a forced blood draw done by a cop resulted in a persistent infection in the suspect’s [...]
[...] can use “extreme force” to extract blood from you if you refuse to give. Stories of injuries from dirty needles and brutal cops are already coming forward. MADD has done its job of destroying the [...]
To ~Galen, who wrote “People love the law, until it is applied to them.”
Wrong. I have been charged with no crime in the last 35 years, certainly never one involving DUI, and never convicted of any criminal offense or misdemeanor other than for failure to contest traffic and/or parking tickets. But I do not love the law when it is abused, regardless of whom the victim of such abuse is.
Based solely on your post in this thread, I could allege that it appears to me that you are exactly the type of L.E.O. who abuses such power, and that to the extent that you feel justified in your absolute power, you have already been absolutely corrupted. Were I to make such unfounded allegations, would you not feel unjustly categorized?
Five percent of the public at large may be criminally inclined, but if the figure is really that high, it is probably that high for police as well. The badge does not make you perfect. It does not enhance your judgment, or make you the only person who can know the truth in any given situation. It does not make you a reliable judge of character based on the writings of people who disagree with you in this forum. It does not make you qualified to drive safely while disobeying the same traffic laws your subjects must obey, just as it does not qualify you to draw blood with or without consent of subjects. What the badge is supposed to do is to remind you that your power must be exercised with great responsibility.
Yes, obviously, aNurse’s remarks were inflammatory. So were yours. You are supposed to know better, and rise above such baiting. If you are not comfortable with that, your discomfort becomes cause for my concern. Illinois already has a reputation for its death-row of DNA-exonerated people wrongly convicted by a very efficient system of injustice.
[...] case, the officers inflicted permanent physical damage on the suspect. There’s also a case pending in Arizona where a forced blood draw done by a cop resulted in a persistent infection in the suspect’s [...]
Just tell the officer you have AIDS and he’s putting himself at risk.
See if he offers you the breathalyser then.
[...] Also bizarre (and causing me to shiver with that full-on gaaaaah! effect), this story. [...]
It is very possible to introduce bacteria into the site where blood is drawn if not using sterile procedure..and since we can have mrsa on our skin it is even more scary. We need to stand up for our rights or soon we will not have any. Also it the blood is not drawn and the tubes not inverted properly the blood alchol can be elevated form coagulation and fermentation….think about that……
I am highly against drinking and driving,but there is no reason what so ever that a person that is not medically trained and licensed to draw blood from a person should be allowed to do it.
Damn, aNures
What’s with all the cop hatred?
As a police officer, I don’t care who is telling me to draw blood or what kind of training they give me, I will not draw blood on a suspect; just sounds wrong to me, and I would not feel comfortable doing it! I have not heard of this in Illinois yet, and I hope that I don’t.
But it Sounds like the law had to be applied to you at some point, aNurse, maybe a little salty about the DUI you received? People love the law, until it is applied to them.
Chill out!
~Galen
[...] training should not be playing around with people’s health, no matter the legal ramifications. Motorists Forced To Let Officers Draw Blood Samples At DUI Stops | National Motorists Association Bl… ^ i found that after i had clicked on this story about how breathalyzers are 23% off It’s [...]
This is ridiculous. If a cop says he wants to take my blood, I’ll just offer to give him a urine sample instead. Which shoe, pig?
I have read the article about officers drawing blood from suspected DUI drivers and the 35 responses. The general consensus seems to be that most people think that untrained people drawing blood from others is a dangerous (if not downright stupid) idea.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks that only those trained to perform venipuncture(the act of drawing blood) should be allowed to do so. My sister, without any measurable skill or a doctor’s permission, drew my father’s blood. My sister’s action freaked me out as I saw it as an act of abuse. I am sure that my father did not give informed consent, as I believe he is afraid of her. I reported her to two different health-type boards in her state and neither one found her guilty of wrongdoing. I, of course, am stunned at the Boards’ feckless responses.
I recognize that my situation is not about police officers taking blood, but as I said in the beginning, I am relieved to see that public consensus seems to be that untrained, non-medical personnel (whether they are police officers or deranged people like my sister) should not be drawing blood.
Do they use an alcohol swab on the stick site before they draw? Do they sneak a quick swipe of alcohol from the swab on and IN the needle before they stick? Instant high blood alcohol reading! The very same no morals, no scruples gestapo who figured out how to get trees to register 40 mph on radar will have no problem figuring out how to rig a blood/alchohol test. Try to prove your innocence when you’re presumed guilty until proven innocent. George Orwell was a prophet.
I am a phlebotomist, and was required to complete a three month training program before being allowed to collect blood samples without supervision. I highly doubt that these law enforcement officers are given even close to what is normally required of a phlebotomist.
I am very interested in knowing exactly how much training these officers must have before being sent out to collect blood samples.
Don’t Drink and Drive This person is the type that has gotten this country in the mess we are today! Obviously mentaly unstable and poorly educated. You are not able to make rational decisions or use lodgic and common sence to make realistic coments or decisions. Pull your head out of your A$$ and look around!
WAKE UP AMERICA! What is it going to take for true americans to wake up and take back control of our country. CHANGES NEED TO BE MADE.
tell them you have aids and see
how quick they give you a
breathalizer instead-keep telling
them be careful i have aids-dont
stick yourself-why are you shaking?
I would sue instantly if this was attempted to be forced on me!!!!!!!!!!
I would never let a police officer draw blood for one a person does not know if they are certified to do this and also there should be no reason that you could not have a hospital do this. I think the people of that state need to stand up and demand this be stopped!
[...] How the hell is this even legal? Cops are now authorised to draw blood from people (you know, I read stuff like this and really figure we’re so fucking far gone that there’s no point of getting out of bed anymore. Every single day it’s some new and better way to feel violated each and every second of the day). [...]
What was wrong with the brethalyzer? Seemed to do the trick.
hey guys, quit the cop-bashing. (sorry, im biased, ive been on the FBI hostage rescue team for 5 years) but it should be obvious that letting untrained cops draw blood is a horrible idea! I have had to draw blood from suspected DUI perps, and FYI its not easy. I think drawing blood in the field should be restricted to tactical medics and paramedics and THATS IT!
What happens when the cops accidentally stick themselves afterward which happens to doctors and nurses on occasion with sober patients? You are talking about blood draws in the field from people displaying signs of drinking and moving around.
They would have to get permission from the donor to check for Hepatitis or god forbid HIV. If it were me getting blood drawn I would tell the cop to stick it.
Are we “The People” going to put up with this draconian police state crap? Just resist and say hell NO!! So what if you are arrested? Sue their arse for your civil rights being violated! Call you State Reps. & Senators and demand that they rescind this law!!
Then join the Ron Paul American revolution to resist this type of government nation wide in 2008. http://www.ronpaul2008.com
Read this:
http://www.patrickruffini.com/2007/10/15/inside-ron-paul-nation/
MD, FYI; you’re obviously a thug cop or a family member of a thug cop. WTSHTF, you will be remembered by those you know and abuse, I’m sure. BTW; can you cite the 4th Amendment, or, can you even tell me what its about? Or, do you even know about these Amendments that supposedly protect citizens. Of course you don’t, THUG. Read the Bill of Rights before you shoot your mouth off.
Well, Doctor (probably a Doctor of Philosophy) before you start slinging phrases like thug and assert others IQ level maybe you should check your own.
Officers have been drawing blood after the sucessful completion of the phelebotomy course for several years now. I would bet they are much more proficient than any Doctor out there.
As for those who say they would just loose their license, after you are served with the license suspension comes an applicaiton to a Judge via fax for a search warrant. If it is granted and served to you then you no longer can refuse.
Continue to refuse and you will be strapped into a restraint chair and the blood draw will be done then.
A one year license suspension and a DUI conviction is usually the result on those cases.
I am a physician, with experience in ERs, hostpials and private clinic practice. We have RNs, that means REGISTERED NURSES, who draw blood, or, alternatively, Certified Medical Technologists, or Certified Phlebotomists, depending on the setting. No where in medicine does a non certified goon draw blood or even touch patients.
To let a thug cop with an average IQ of 89, an authoritarian/schizotypal personality profile, and NO experience in health care, draw blood is moronic at best. I just wonder what makes these goons think they have the skill to do a blood draw; just because they can beat an innocent person until they bleed doesn’t mean they can draw blood medicinally.
Just remember, without the POLICE, you can’t have a POLICE STATE. Everyone needs to remember that when TSHTF.
wardoc
I lived and worked in Moscow, Russia from late 1991 to early 1994, as the first General Director of the first Chevrolet dealership in the former Soviet Union. Russian traffic police, the G.A.I. (guy-eee), had the right to take blood samples at the side of the road and the legal alcohol tolerance level for drivers was ZERO. Smart people carried their own sealed and sterilized needles in case that happened to them. Smarter people (including me)learned where the GAI tended to have their traps and took other routes. I was never stopped for suspected DUI, though I often drove after having some wine with dinner and having a likely BAC of .02 to .06.
Are you kidding me? I would cheerfully lose my license for a year rather than allow some macho, marginally trained peace office to stick a needle in my arm. After they take your blood they now have a sample of your DNA. It sounds to me like a “slick” way to build a DNA bank of “problem” people. What’s next? Taking blood samples of everyone as they’re born and building a DNA database? Anyone who thinks they live in a free country put your arm in the air and wave it around!!!
Hey Marc. I appreciate your outrage about this practice however you´re a bit off the mark when you say the French and Russians are subject to these practices. Driving in France is bad but no one in that country would put up with this. I´m not sure about the former Soviet Union but a neighbor of mine, a recent former resident of Russia, could hardly believe this was happening in ANY country. When it comes to traffic enforcement, it´s too bad the US has become the same type of oppresive dictatorship from which it was supposedly protecting its citizens.
“Amendment 4
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.”
In other words, they need an order issued by a judge. I don’t care what some paper pushing closet fascist says – until the US Constitution is amended the cops who do this and anyone who supports them are breaking the law.
Also, practicing medicine without a medical licence is a felony in every state.
If you drink and drive, you face the consequences. I think they should be able to do this to get the conviction. Keep the drunks off the streets and get them convicted.
Community good? COMMUNITY GOOD?
Giving police the right to stick an average citizen with a needle is NOT community good.
To the person who said we’re becoming a fascist state… that’s like the frog thinking the bubbling water is starting to feel warm.
If it’s all about safety, then the cops shouldn’t be at all hesitant to reciprocate. If the cop won’t submit to a blood test to prove his soberness I’m not about to let him stick me on the same grounds.
Might be time to push the right of self locomotion a little harder.
ElissaF
From Civics 101 – That’s called Socialism and there is an Air France flight leaving for Paris in 15 minutes that would put you in that environment. We are all on a slippery slope when we start doing things “for the good of the community”. That is idealist language and reasoning that when expanded can justify almost any number of intrusions that police, politicians, etc can roll out under the banner of “For the good of the masses”. Not trying to say we are there – yet – but I will point out that the selling of such philosophies is how most Dictator’s or oppressive governments came to power and convinced a population that their actions were “in the best interest of their countrymen” I’ll remind you that our country was formed to flee exactly such repression from a Monarchy, which is why we formed a Republic.
No amount of medical training of this type is possible for the police forces, drawing blood is a different profession. the police force is having a hard enough time keeping up with the typical police work. Drawing blood is dangerous and invasive. What pissed off cop is going to care about the person he/she wants to draw blood from. The DA just found a way to make more money, by winning cases that the tax payers will have to finance. DAs will do anything to win cases….framing people, go after easy targets like nieve young folks, frame the victim, now draw blood.
Perhaps the saddest commentary of all on this subject is this. The fact is that this insane, over-reaching, and intrusive violation of individuals rights will not stop until the state is sued and is forced to pay a huge sum of taxpayer’s money. People complain that we have too many lawsuits in the country, but this is exactly why that is the case.
If the taxpayers must pay the consequences of such stupid policy, then perhaps they should have been allowed to vote on this as a referendum. I can guarantee this would never have passed and been granted as acceptable if put up or a vote. Don’t misunderstand me, drunk driving is yet another selfish, indulgent act that American’s do which shows no regard or consideration to those around them and if I were King the rule would be simple, Get caught doing it, lose your right to drive for life. However, that cannot turn our country into a police state where enforcement and mere suspicion precede due process. That’s called Russia so if you like that sorta thing, move there
Welcome to the soon to be facist America…
I’m more concerned about the safety of the community than of any one member of the community. To this end, police should be well-trained in using the needles, however, the goal is to get unsafe drivers off the roads.
Refuse the needle, and if they stick you anyway, charge the officer with assult.
And by the way, since when can’t cops be tried in civil court? If people pressed suit against bad cops, or even good cops following bad orders, I’d wager that law enforcement would become a lot more polite.
[...] just seems plain wrong! Since when are police officers medically trained? There have been an increasing number of police [...]
Holy f#@$ing Christ almighty… this hasn’t made national news yet?
I hope the person who is suing wins in the multiples of millions for medical malpractice since LEO are NOT trained medical practitioners and should not be drawing blood.
Moreso is the absolute gross violation of civil rights. What sort of fascist country have we become? Jesus H. F#@$ing Christ
Insane. When do the feds come to my house to install cameras and bugs so they can watch and listen?
[...] Motorists Forced To Let Officers Draw Blood Samples At DUI Stops [...]
This is insane. I thought it was satire when I clicked the link. How is this possible?
Amazing. This is clearly medical malpractice. If I started drawing blood in this manner, even with good intentions, I would be arrested.
How do they handle the large number of people who have religious objections to the vampiric drawing of their blood for non-medical purposes? Are they simply not allowed to drive because of their religious beliefs in Arizona?
What happens when an individual, even a sober one, has a fear of needles? Many people have a paralyzing fear of needles and, despite being perfectly sober, would refuse a blood draw out of pure panic, regardless of the potential consequences. Presumably, the officer could demand a blood draw instead of the breathalyser, an innocent suspect could refuse and lose his or her license automatically simply for refusing under duress. Of course, the suspect could tell the story to the judge, who may or may not believe it. If the officer gives in and allows the breathalyser instead of the blood draw, then smart suspects will claim a fear of needles to gain the advantage of a breathalyser test that is vulnerable in court. If the judge allows the license suspension to stand, then the citizens are compelled to submit to a risky and invasive medical procedure performed by inadequately trained law enforcement or else lose a freedom that has become essential in the modern world. It is an impossible situation but we live in a country where the presumption must be in favor of individual freedoms and there is no freedom more important than the freedom to be free from intrusions upon our person without due process. These blood draws are grossly inappropriate.
I am not a certified medical professional, but I have had some interaction with the field. I for one, am deeply concerned over this practice. True, you can do a blood draw in not quite sterile conditions, but it is a very risky situation no matter how you look at it. There is also the other concern of making a good draw. I am a rather large individual, and I can tell you that to get an promising draw, you have to utilize a rather fine needle, because my veins are extremely had to hit. I have been disallowed to donate blood due to my veins. The thought that an untrained individual could take a large gauge needle to my arm scares me. The chance for infection is high, but also there is the chance for damage due to the needle.