By Al on Nov 4, 2008

I have never got into an accident, nor have I been indirectly involved in one. I’ve been driving since I was a kid and I am a pro at it. When I get into my car, I pump up the tunes and they get me into a relaxed feel, and then I always get up to my comfort speed of 57 MPH…Every road…I’ve gotten 2 tickets so far (one when it was like 3 9in the morning and I was the ONLY one on the road for MILES. People speed…and most speeders are good speeders…in the fact that they are paying attention to driving and not a cell phone and they know what they are doing.

By giles farmer on Sep 13, 2008

John B. wrote: “They are objective enforcement arbiters, but ineffective in encouraging real change for the better in driving habits.”

That’s a very good point. The objective “letter of the law” is one part, and the subjective “spirit of the law” is equally important. An infraction can only occur when both concepts have been violated.

By mike on Mar 11, 2008

Most highway accidents i have seen were results of a slow moving vehicle. The slow moving vehicle was never in the accident. The accident was always several vehicles behind the idiot who caused the crash, who never had a clew it even happened, much less that they were actually at fault.

By Pat on Mar 11, 2008

BTW Let you or I try that & see how fast our car would be impounded or get BOOTED for not paying the fine!!!!

By Pat on Mar 11, 2008

Just do what NY does (or did in the 70’s) have Traffic Control Agents do the citiation writing- no matter though IT IS WHAT IT IS! MONEY & REVENUE that is why you always have them out in force at a particuliar time each month & ONLY THEN!!!!

By Joe on Feb 17, 2008

steve, your a rare bird. Sending a message to your legislators is rare act by most drivers. Keep up the good work. Get your friends and family members to do the same.

By steve on Feb 14, 2008

Albo is back at it in Virginia, athough he voted to repeal his fees, HB 161 which keeps some of the fees has passed Va House. I have emailed my State delagete and Senator my displesure

By Joe on Feb 13, 2008

John B., well said. I have no GPS, my CD player has been used a total of about 2 minutes since I purchased the vehicle (just to see if it worked) and anybody who calls me on my old bag cell phone knows they’ve got about a minute of time to say what they’re gonna say or the hammer comes down. When I drive, I concentrate on my driving . No, I’m not a perfect driver but I’m always trying to do better. I agree, courtesy is lacking big time.
Although you hinted of it you failed to elaborate. A few years ago the AAA had a bill introduced into the Oklahoma legislature that would increase funding for drivers education. A lot of tongue wagging ensued but by the time the bill was massaged back and forth in committees, when it finally became law it was practically a joke (all voluntary and little state funding backing it, just to name a few). Of all the organizations who I thought would fall behind this legislation would have been law enforcement. Surprise, they received it with only a luke warm response. Said driver training didn’t have any effect when the kid under real world conditions. Hmmmm. I can’t think of a better first step to getting drivers off to a good start in their driving lifetime then a state-of-the-art drivers training course for high school students. We now have driving simulators. Let them make their mistakes in those rather then out on the road. I’m still puzzled about LEO’s lack of support.
I agree about speed enforcement. The fact that law enforcement blames every accident on speeding regardless, has lulled many drivers into a false sense of security. Many drivers now feel that as long as they stay at or below the speed limit, nothing else will cause them to get into a accident or a traffic citation. All kinds of studies and statistics say otherwise but still the status quo continues.

By John B. on Feb 11, 2008

{Reducing speed does prevent crashes and the loss of life.}

And if no one moves at all, there won’t be any crashes and fatalties.

This syllogism has been the mantra of those seeking lower and lower speed limits for as long as I can remember.

Coming from a family of law enforcement officers (highway patrol and county sheriffs), I can tell you that the PRIMARY reason for highway fatalities is poor driving skills, lack of courtsey and not paying full time and attention.

Getting a drivers license in the U.S. is a joke. Just go in an pass a short written test and a 10 minute road test, and you are good to go! If you want to have an impact on safety, up the test standards. These tests do nothing to measure skills.

Courtsey on the highways is another concern. Why do people linger in the left lane of a divided highway? Move right except to pass! Only Oregon has this law (to my knowledge) and they enforce it! Give a gap and take a gap during rush hour merges. Look out for the other guy - I have avoided many accidents by giving way to someone else who was not looking out, in a daze or other wise disengaged. The first person that says, “I had the right-of-way as a defense - should get charged with the accident or violation.

Put the cell phones and GPS navigators away and out of sight! Pay attention to your 2 ton hunk of metal travelling down the road at 60 mph. You watch where you swing your hammer when pounding nails? Same diff.

Folks get preoccupied with speed and get duped by the NHSTA do gooders into thinking that ridiculously low speed limits are the answer. They are objective enforcement arbiters, but ineffective in encouraging real change for the better in driving habits.

By Joe on Feb 9, 2008

Brad, I respect your respective but as is usually the case, it’s one point of view. There’s simply no evidence that pure speeding in-of-itself is a major cause of accidents. You should know that accidents are almost always caused by multiple factors. I was recently required to take a FAA mandated class because I work in aviation. Safety is my concern too. The class related to “Human Factors in safety”. We looked at medical errors which cause loss of lives, auto crashes and of course aviation accidents. Unless the class was all wrong, your making auto accident causation by enforcement arbitrary speed limits, far too simplistic. There’s plenty of studies and research suggesting of the REAL causes of auto accidents and ……speeding simply is not a significant factor. There’s a multitude of traffic laws that REALLY affect auto safety that are not being enforced in lieu of speed enforcement. Radar doesn’t see the bad drivers on the road. But it’s just so easy to set up a trap to get your quota. No reasonable person is suggesting that you go flying around in total denial of the your driving environment. Speed traps is one of the reasons why so many of us have little respect for law enforcement knowing it’s for revenue and not safety.
Please read; “One thousand motorists died on Virginia roads despite crack downs on motorists and massive speeding ticket fines”. http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/21/2148.asp

By James Young on Feb 8, 2008

Brad writes:

{I just want to ask some of those opposed to speeding tickets- Have you ever had to work a fatality car wreck, and notify a family of the loss?}

No, because if citizens get near a crash, they’re threatened with arrest for interfering. I used to work in the ER of a major hospital so I’ve seen the results of crashes, which is why I work so hard to improve traffic safety effectiveness.

{Police do not set or regulate the cost, nor does it go to our paycheck.}

That is generally but not universally true. In so many of the CS speedtraps listed on this site, the village administration and police are the same people and their paychecks do depend on catching speeders. And that $100 billion collected in speed fines every year go somewhere into the system of which the cops are a major part.

{Reducing speed does prevent crashes and the loss of life.}

Then you need to show us the stats because NHTSA and many independent academic studies do not show that at all.

{ I don’t know how many of you live on Highways, but I have had numerous people who do, tell me Thank you for slowing the traffic down.}

With all due respect to those people, it not the residents who determine the speed limits but the drivers. At least that is the scientific method. A more reasonable decision is to not live on the highway. And nobody lives on Interstates.

{ What we do is not personal.}

For the driver it is very personal.

{ You probably have not seen what some of us have, and I would not want you to, but I want to prevent it from happining again, at least the best I can.}

That is what I have been touting for nearly 50 years now: policies that are designed to actually accomplish something other than raise revenue.

By Hubcap on Feb 8, 2008

Brad,
I don’t think anyone here is advocating the “freedom” to drive fast on residential street or “fly low” past a school bus. That is just dumb irresponsible behaviour.

No, we’re talking about the highway where there is nothing to hit except the guardrail and speed limits are set low with the intent of being able to write more tickets.

In other words, criminializing what would otherwise be perfectly acceptible. Why is law enforcement not opposed to that?

By Joe on Feb 8, 2008

There’s many on here that can explain your inquiry better than I. Here’s my quick take on it. Many of us resent the “business” of traffic control. Take ALL the money out of traffic control and we will see more balanced enforcement. You had to have had your head in the sand while surfing not to have observed how much revenue has played a vital role in influencing speed traps and abusive enforcement. See; http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/22/2205.asp
Also read; http://www.motorists.org/blog/traffic-tickets/7-ways-to-shut-down-a-speed-trap/ is a particularly good one. Enjoy.

By Brad on Feb 8, 2008

I just want to ask some of those opposed to speeding tickets- Have you ever had to work a fatality car wreck, and notify a family of the loss? Ever had someone travel past your home, or when your child was getting on a school bus when someone was “Flying Low”? I know people get upset from the cost of a citation, Police do not set or regulate the cost, nor does it go to our paycheck. Just as you go to work every day and do what you are ordered to do, Police do also. Like it or not. If you ask most Police Officers if they took the uniform to only write speeding tickets they would answer no, it’s part of the job. Reducing speed does prevent crashes and the loss of life. I don’t know how many of you live on Highways, but I have had numerous people who do, tell me Thank you for slowing the traffic down. What we do is not personal. You probably have not seen what some of us have, and I would not want you to, but I want to prevent it from happining again, at least the best I can. This Country is lacking in respect for others, and the way we drive is not beyond that. Just think about it. Thanks for listening to my aspect of it.

By Benjamin on Feb 6, 2008

i receive 3 ticket 1 for speed another for muffler and this the i look another car more speed to my and more sound this car go to the corner and the police not looking the police talk to me o you go a 70 in zone 50 an i talk to the police you stop my and i go not 70 i go 60 because i look my speed and this cop talk to me is not my problem

By Joe on Feb 6, 2008

Jerry, I too am in my early sixties. I also remember traffic control as being about safety. Revenue wasn’t a consideration back then by police departments and thus we had much more reasonable enforcement. As Jame Young so correctly pointed out on another blog, this all started as a result of the NMSL in the seventies when in the process of enforcing the 55 mph speed limit, municipalities found out how much money could be extracted from the driving public. I remember vividly sometime in the late ’70’s when some judge in Dade County Florida put radar on trial, a vendor representative testified that the two best ways for a municipality to make money was through municipal bonds and a radar gun.
Jerry, because you and I have seen traffic control from a historical perspective, and may help to explain why some of us are more appalled then the younger generation. They have no way to know how much worse things have become. The law enforcement community understands this and realize that as younger generations come along, they won’t object so much because they have no way to know how much the noose has been tightening around the driving publics neck. Most cops are out there now-a-days just to fill their quota so their performance report won’t look bad. Any safety value is purely accidental. Radar doesn’t find the real accident causations such as following too closely, left lane hogging, cell phone use and the numerous distractions in modern day car. It’s clear to me and it probably is to you also that modern law enforcement has made a sham and a mockery out of traffic control.

By Joe on Feb 6, 2008

Mike your quite right. Bill Clinton promised a 100,000 new cops “on the streets”. He delivered exactly what he promised. What the American people thought he meant by the phrase “on the streets” and the way it turned out was two entirely different things. The so-called criminals that Bill Clinton inferred too turned out to be the American drivers!! Of course most people thought he was talking about actual dangerous criminals. I remember it well and I shuttered when I first heard it announced back in the early ’90’s because having studied the philosophy of municipalities and law enforcement, I knew drivers were going to be in for a long, hard ride. My prediction unfortunately has been fulfilled.
A couple years after the program started it was announced that one of our local police departments was getting a grant. The program was called the “COPS MORE” program. I wrote my U.S. Representative and he got me information from the US department responsible for doling out the money. I asked if any of this grant would be used for traffic control. The response was that it would. It turns out that “real” criminals was not the only target they were allowed to use the money for. Departments had a wide range of uses for this grant money. All this money should have had a narrow definition as to how it was to be used and traffic control should have been a BIG NO NO. I’m sure law enforcement lobbiest made sure that law enforcement could use the money for just about anything. Something uncommon when the government doles out money. It always has strings attached. It illustrates how powerful law enforcement in this county has become.
Whether you like Bill Clinton or not, that and it’s sister programs had to be one of the biggest crap programs ever sold to the American public. The general public is so naive about law enforcement intentions and their masters, the municipalities they work for. As I’ve said a zillion times, it perplexes me as to why more people don’t get involved to reform the system. I can think of several good bills to get introduced right now starting with transparency of all these departments. Did you ever notice how hard it is to get data on a departments traffic control program? It’s like a state secret. I wonder why…ha, ha.
We set around talking about the problem but that’s as far as it goes. Talking and debating a this subject is good but actually affecting change is something entirely different. We all know the problem but that’s about as far as it goes. The cops love us for remaining silent on the issue of traffic control reform. Meanwhile their organizations are thinking of more and newer ways to screw the driving public. We elect our legislators but they use them. It’s a hell’va deal. And they laugh all the way to the bank with a big smirk on their face.
I’ve tried to get something done here in Oklahoma but I have no support. I’m not going to fight the good fight alone, I can’t. One or two citizens are just not going to get much traction no matter how noisy they make at the legislative level. I’m almost at the point now that if the damn drivers won’t wake up, let’em get hit in the pocket book. I hate to be a pessimist but I really think we may be past the point of no return. The American drivers/people/citizens have become so complacent just as a herd of sheep. Ya, I raised some sheep when I was a kid as a 4-H project, honest. I know what I’m talking about on both points. Mike, as you so correctly pointed out, the effects of these now defunct programs still exist.

By mike on Feb 5, 2008

I would like to add one more thing in this forum. In the 1990s we were promised 100,000 new police officer is the country. They were federally funded for only a few years. Since that time the federal funding is over but the cops remain. These government entities, especially NCHP, are doing little but revenue enhancement. I could go on, but…

By mike on Feb 5, 2008

As one who drives close to 100k a year in a car, I have been the recipient of many speeding tickets over the past 40 years of driving. I have not been deterred by tickets and agree with the theories presented. However, I have been deterred by a recent rollover on the interstate not because I was speeding, but, because of “road-rage”. Without going into full details, I was forced to make a quick left right maneuver into another lane, my “new” left tires blew causing the SUV to flip and landed on the top skidding down the middle of a 6 lane interstate. Of course the “rager” did not stop even though I tagged her car at the driver’s door. That has slowed me down considerable, and as a result, I find that I am not as good of a driver because I find myself with a false since of security, thereby, not paying as close attention as I would if I were driving faster. By the way, I got the ticket even though the other person ran off, many NCarolina HP are twits. He didn’t show up in court, but, still cost me over $1000 in lawyer fees.

By Jerry on Feb 4, 2008

I am in my 60’s. I remember a day when speeding tickets had to do with your safety. Then, just like televangelists,they saw how much money began coming in. That is when they began posting unrealistic speed limits and hid police behind objects such as bill boards, nooks and crannies. It all has to do with economics now. I know, because my nephew is a police officer in the 13th largest city in the U.S.and my neighbor is a police officer in a small suburb of that large city. They both say that money is the one and only thing the departments are interested in anymore. And, YES, there are monthly quotas to be met. It is what it is.

By Joe on Feb 3, 2008

These one-size-fits-all speed limits don’t cut it. The fact that LEO’s treat those arbitrarily generated numbers on a sign as absolutes, usually set too low, not set by scientific methods is reason enough for drivers to travel above the posted limit. Set the limit scientifically for efficient and safe travel and you’ll see a lot less speeding AND a safer driving environment. Speeding is usually a sign that drivers have no confidence in the speed limit. It’s time to change these Model T, gravel road speed limits. It seems this country has to micromanage every aspect of our lives including the speeds we drive.

As a municipality you can’t make money off the driving public unless you set speed limits artificially low hence the incentive to do so. In a perfect world revenue wouldn’t be a factor at all and neither would speeding. Further, we would see a lot less abusive traffic control on the part of law enforcement. We would start seeing enforcement of traffic laws that ACTUALLY affect traffic accidents instead of the artificial notion about enforcement of speed laws. It’s unfortunate that drivers don’t protest low speed limits instead of breaking them. If it’s wrong for drivers to speed then it’s ALSO WRONG for drivers to not have any input into decision making when it comes to setting speed limits!! Why is it that there’s a complete disproportionate percentage of speeding tickets handed out when compared to the actual accident percentage caused by speeding? I think we both know the answer to that question and it has nothing to do with accidents.

By Michhael on Feb 3, 2008

I can say for sure that tickets deter me from speeding. I’ve only had 1 in my life but it was 250.00 (80 in a 65) and I’ve been much more cautious since then. I don’t doubt that in some areas the local law is writing tickets as a way of generating revenue to the point of extortion but I just don’t believe that is the case in most communities. If you all would just slow down a little you probably wouldn’t have a problem. Better yet…try riding a bike!