7 Ways To Shut Down A Speed Trap
October 30th, 2007 Posted in Speed Limits, Speed Traps, Traffic TicketsSpeed traps are often used by municipalities as a method of generating revenue to run the government. "Safety" is given as the excuse for running a speed trap, but the real reason boils down to money.
- The police department wants more money for equipment and salaries.
- The City wants more money to avoid raising taxes.
- Local residents and businesses often go along with speed traps because they reduce local taxes, and besides, they’re usually not the drivers who get the tickets anyway.
A "win win" situation for everybody in town, but not for the poor saps that suffer fines, points and insurance surcharges in the name of "safety." However, any person, if persistent enough, can take meaningful action to eliminate the classic speed trap. There are multiple approaches to bringing public and private wrath down upon the perpetrators of speed traps.
1) Appeal To Local Business Owners
With sufficient prodding local businesses can be effective in lobbying for the end of community speed traps. One way to prompt this kind of lobbying is to convince business owners that the local speed trap is costing them money, or is about to cost them money.
This can be done by sending letters to local businesses and the chamber of commerce stating that you and anyone you can convince accordingly, will not be shopping in that community until the use of speed traps is discontinued.
2) Get The Attention Of The Local Media
Letters should be sent to the local newspapers, radio and TV stations, and to the mayor or any other head of the government that sponsors the speed trap.
The combination of economic sanctions (loss of business) and embarrassment of local officials may generate pressure to eliminate the speed trap, or at least reduce its most abusive characteristics.
3) Purchase Small Advertisements In The Paper
If the media ignores the story, you can still get the word out in other ways. To add a little momentum to your efforts you may want to purchase small ads in surrounding community newspapers that identify the speed trap and demand that things change.
4) Find Other Speed Trap Victims To Join The Cause
Ask around the area and find other speed trap victims. The trap has taken money out of their pockets so it won’t be hard to convince them to join the effort. If you generate some additional interest and help, the media and local officials will start to take you more seriously.
5) Request A Traffic Engineering Study
If a local village or city is using a state or county highway as a speed trap you may be able to provoke the state or county officials sufficiently to have them force the end of the speed trap. For example, if the speed limit is severely under-posted you can request a copy of the traffic engineering study that sanctioned such a low speed limit.
You can use a "public information request" or "freedom of information request" to force the release of this study, if the public agency won’t willingly release it. More often than not, no such study exists.
There are exceptions, but all states require a traffic engineering study to support an unusual or abnormally low speed limit. Even if a traffic engineering study exists, it may not support the speed limit posted by the local unit of government.
6) Talk To Your Elected Officials
All elected officials give lip service to the belief that underhanded and exploitative speed enforcement should not be used as a means to extort money from honest responsible citizens. It’s fair game to ask them to put substance behind their words. You have every right to ask your state legislators to pass a law that will reduce, if not eliminate the abuses common to speed traps.
Here are some approaches you can suggest to your state senator or representative:
- Require that any posted speed limit that differs from the standard speed limit for a given type of road or highway be supported by a legitimate traffic engineering study that determines the 85th percentile speed of free flowing unimpeded traffic.
- Establish a limit on the percent of local revenues that any community can generate through traffic fines. Any local unit of government that is generating more than 10% to 20% of its total revenue from fines is abusing traffic enforcement for revenue enhancement purposes.
- Require that a high percentage (75 %) of all traffic fines and related costs be transferred to an unrelated state fund, e.g. public education, emergency relief, or public library aids.
- Prohibit the use of electronic speed measurement devices to enforce speed limits that have not been determined through the use of an official traffic engineering study.
- Require specific and proper training for any person using electronic devices for speed enforcement purposes.
- Provide that any motorist charged with a traffic violation has the automatic right for a change of venue to a court of record (from a local administrative or municipal court).
- Prohibit the use of electronic speed measurement devices to clock vehicles within 100 yards of a speed limit sign that reduces the speed limit.
By giving your legislator concrete and realistic suggestions you will have made it difficult for he or she to just ignore your request. Getting a bill drafted and introduced is still a long way from getting it passed into law, but it sure is a good start in the right direction.
7) Challenge Your Speed Trap Ticket In Court
On a very personal and individual level there is yet another way to challenge and oppose speed traps.
If you’re caught in a speed trap, you need to challenge your speeding ticket in court. Just paying the ticket to avoid the hassle will only perpetuate the system by giving the municipality exactly what it wants and expects: your money. Challenge your ticket in court with the full knowledge that you may have to appeal your conviction to a higher, more legitimate court. This accomplishes a variety of objectives:
- You force the operators of the speed trap to take their time and money to prosecute you.
- If you are well prepared, a competent judge may decide to formally chastise the speed trap operators, especially if they have violated an existing state law.
- Finally, as a reward for your hard work, there’s a good chance the charges against you will be dismissed.
This article was adapted from information on the NMA’s speed trap registry website, www.speedtrap.org, a listing of speed traps submitted by drivers across the country.
Other Related Articles
I am retired law enforcement and support LEGITIMATE enforcement. Right now, I am fighting a speed trap in Montgomery County, Texas. The speed limit was incorrectly posted 40, but engineering report and Texas Dept. of Transportation orders have it as 50 MPH zone. Local Sheriff’s has received federal funds to target the incorrect zone with STEP grant. The STEP manual requires them to confirm legitimacy of speed before enforcement, but they have issued several thousand tickets to innocent motorists. My wife got a citation. We have assurances from the District Attorney that they will not prosecute now that they are aware and the signs have been corrected to 50 MPH. Unfortunately, thousands of motorists paid.
The most disappointing aspect is that the Texas Dept of Transportation issued two orders in 2008 to erect correct signs, but their crews falsified reports of doing the work. I asked Sheriff’s Office to investigate and dismiss citations, but they refused citing that the TXDOT funded the salary of the deputy and that if there was a sign, the were going to enforce it. It seems they didn’t read their agreement to verify before enforcing.
The wife is set for arraignment and we obtained reports, maps, photos, and email proving the error under the Texas Public Information Act. I am supporter of traffic control, but learned you do it through the three E’s…. Engineering, Education and Enforcement. SPEED TRAPS embarrass professional law enforcement.
[...] 7 Ways To Shut Down A Speed Trap Posted by root 8 minutes ago (http://www.motorists.org) Http roadsafety wordpress com 2009 03 10 photos of 10 worst high speed crashes olefin wash with outdoor hose made in usa 18lx27w in my comment about martial law after katrina i made no assertion of when it we need a totally new idea on transportation and Discuss | Bury | News | 7 Ways To Shut Down A Speed Trap [...]
way 8
sprinkle a coupld pounds of roofing nails where the bastards hide with their radar guns
Pirate News says((Tennessee Supreme Court says speed limits not valid without traffic engineering survey
http://piratenews.org/OakRidge-v-speed-limit-OPN.pdf))
Phil replies((The Tennessee Supreme Court said no such thing. There were cases of record cited which found that to be the case but the Tennessee Supreme court found as follows:
“We find these cases to be persuasive. In the instant case, the defendant attempted to pursue her defense that the speed limit was not properly established according to applicable law. We conclude that the defense asserted by the defendant is an appropriate defense to the speeding charge
and that the trial court erred when it concluded that this issue could not be raised in that court. We pretermit all other issues raised by the parties.
We express no opinion as to whether the defendant can establish, to the satisfaction of the trier of fact, that the posted speed limit on State Route 62 was not properly established. As far as the City’s burden of proof is concerned, it can rely upon the presumption of validity referred to in Thomas. It will be the defendant’s obligation to rebut the presumption by proving that the posted
speed limit was not properly established. If she fails to satisfy this obligation, the presumption prevails and proof of the posted speed limit establishes the speed limit.
IV.
The judgment of the trial court is hereby vacated, and this case is remanded to the courtbelow for further proceedings in accordance with this opinion. Costs on appeal are taxed to the City of Oak Ridge.
Which is totally different than what you have summarized. This says that the court holds no opinion with regards to whether the speed limit was properly established or not. This decision allows the defendant to argue the defense that the speed limit was not properly established and that it is her burden to rebut the presumption of validity (most state laws have carry this presumption clause: that a motorist must presume that signs that appear to be official and posted by lawful authority are valid unless proven to be not valid by a separate competent authority) and prove the speed limit was not properly established by lawful authority. Unfortunately she must do this to the court who’s decision she got vacated with her appeal. If she can’t convince that court that the speed limit was improperly set then the presumption that the speed limit sign was placed by lawful authority means she had to obey it. Also unfortunately her defense that the speed limit was not set properly includes an admission that she was exceeding what was posted because it was improperly set. Said admission is on record and able to be used against her to convict her if she fails to prove the speed limit was set improperly.))
Tennessee Supreme Court says speed limits not valid without traffic engineering survey
http://piratenews.org/OakRidge-v-speed-limit-OPN.pdf
Pastor Rick Strawcutter preaches How Any Idiot Can Beat a Radar Speeding Ticket
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5186628884102899588&hl=en
download ASAP since Google Video is banning and deleting all videos in 6 months
http://piratenews-tv.blogspot.com/2009/04/case-of-censored-videos.html
Good job guys!!! thanks
93so. through and around B.C. NV is becoming rediculasand …any time of day you can see police officers giving tickets, and from what I heard , they are very rude and abrupt.
the police chief should take note. There are elections coming ,and I don”t think he’ll make it!
The police chief is not an elected position!
The mayor is an elected position and he appoints the police chief.
The Mayor does Not appoint the Police chief he appoints the police commisioner as a liason to the police department. The Police Chief is a position aquired by raising through the ranks by promotion. Typically promotion happens through demonstrated knowledge and taking a civil service test.
Traffic Cams should result in Traffic Jams, reduce speed to minimum. This would cause back ups and changing traffic patterns. It wouldn’t take long before merchants and public would complain to officials to correct the problem. It doesn’t mean speed at random but 11 miles over…come on the cops do more that that getting coffee.
Charles Will, traffic cams would not interfere with traffic. If everyone drives close to the same speed then traffic flow would be a lot better. Far less accidents would occur and less braking and accelerating would be needed. I just drove about 2300 miles the past week driving to the rockies and back. I had to laugh at some trying to tailgate to drive faster and saw brake lights coming on dozens of times from the same vehicles and I kept my distance and only tapped my brakes a couple of times and still traveled just as fast. Some people do not know how to drive.
Why doesn’t everybody just slow down? Then you would’nt have to worry about speeding tickets…you mororns.
That is a way too sensible solution for anyone in this organization to comprehend James.
As I drive 25-30K per year in the course of doing business, I have received and fought my share of summons for speeding, parking etc. My view is that it is a form of road tax. I do, however make sure that every ticket is challenged.
My rules:
1. note where you received the ticket, i e address, direction.
2. check the ticket for technical errors. Did the officer cite the violation section, did he or she sign it, date it, get your vehicle plate and car right? It’s amazing how many mistakes are made. And most judges will dismiss on a technicality or at least let you negotiate a lesser charge with court
3.Always plead “not guilty” (who you gonna believe, the gun in my hand or your lying Eyes?”) If more people would plead guilty, the strain on the courts and need to bring in the officer to testify, makes a reduced charge more likely – The objective is a either dismissal or reduction to a no points traffic infraction; let em have the fine money – its the points that can kill you.
4. Don’t be afraid to ask for a continuance as you get closer to trial. It’s your right and it mucks up the court scheduling. The more time between the alleged offence and the trial, the better chance you have of getting off because the officer lost their notes, doesn’t make it to court, retired (yup, had that one happen) etc.
5. Request a deposition. If the complaining officer doesn’t supply one, and you show up in court with the proof of request, That pretty much a get out of jail card.
If you are stopped for DUI, Alcohol or Drugs and it’s a legit stop, disregard all of the above. You deserve everything you get and then some. If no one is harmed by your actions consider yourself lucky, and be glad it isn’t an executable offense. Get help before you do hurt someone. I’d gladly throw the switch on you myself.
For everyone else, keep fighting the good fight. And drive safely.
Wow Randy! Ricky and Mikey think we are the same person. Probably because they are the same person and he suspects others would do the same as he has just to have someone to agree with. That is pathetic Mikey-Joe.
Well, Ricky Joe is going to have to hold down the fort for awhile because tomorrow I’m riding to Lousiana for the HOG rally in Shreveport. Won’t be back until the end of the weekend.
Well Have a speedy trip and I truly hope you are involved in a speed related crash. I don’t want it to kill you though just paralize you, from the neck down. Have fun
Sorry to disappoint, but I wasn’t involved in any crashes, speed-related or otherwise. If that’s the extent of your hopes and expectations, then your life is going to be a series of disappointments.
Someone sent me an email about Wisconsin. Happy to share:
You know you’re from Wisconsin when:
You measure distance in hours.
You often switch from “heat” to “A/C” and back again — on the same day.
You see people wearing camouflage at social events (including weddings and funerals).
You install security lights on your house and garage — and leave both unlocked.
Driving is better in the winter because the potholes are filled with snow.
You have no problem pronouncing Lac Du Flambeau.
You consider Minneapolis exotic.
Your 4th of July picnic was moved indoors due to frost.
http://www.state.nj.us/transportation/about/press/2000/65mpg/
And so? How much money did we spend to find out something that is purely common sense?
Ricky did you read the article carefully In zones where the limit was raised to 65mph and some adjacent 55mph zones experienced more crashes and more people injured in those crashes. So what was the purely common sense thing that we spent this money to find out?
Speaking of reading the article carefully…
“Accident rates fluctuate over time. In periods between 1984 and 1996, rates vary as much as 12 percent per year. The study captured data for a fixed 18-month period. Accordingly, it is not possible to determine whether the increase in accidents in 65 MPH zones represents a normal fluctuation in accident rates or suggests that increased speed contributes to increased accidents. ”
…everyone sees what they want.
Ricky Joe, doesn’t it sound like a rehash of that old Spielberg movie, “Duel”? Attack of the Killer Trucks.
I was reading a story in the newspaper about someone who tried to use his motocycle battery to set off a batch of firecrackers. According to the paper, the detonation was so powerful that it left a crater in the road and the resultant explosion could be heard a mile away. Considering firecracker strings are made of fiber which are not conductors, and detonation requires a flame, not electricity, it still overlooks the fact that there is only just so much gunpowder in a batch of firecrackers. No matter how you detonate them, the same amount of gunpowder is STILL only going to explode no harder.
Hi Mike, very well could have been the battery itself exploding, plus the GP. I have seen a battery explosion when a battery shorted out, blew the hood and left fender off the car. I was about 50 feet away and it felt like a grenade going off. Needless to say, I have mucho respect for batteries now.
You forgot of the example of the crash that I was 2 miles in front of that I heard very clearly and it sounded like an explosion. The Truck driver was doing somewhere over 15 mph above the speed limit. You have to really look out for truck drivers that do not obey the law.
http://www.pantagraph.com/articles/2008/11/01/news/doc490bd517ec01a134303461.txt
amazing the amount of kinetic energy a loaded tractor trailer carries as it speeds down the roadway isn’t?
Ricky Joe from what I’ve seen here you lack the common sense to have respect for things that could hurt you. I bet before you saw it for yourself you’d have argued that A car battery just couldn’t hurt anyone.
Well Phil, that’s the diff between you and me. I’ve seen and experienced a lot of things and survived them. LOL, better than just writing about them as you have with no experience vested to warrant your beliefs, as it has been said, “Thomas, place your hand into my side.” Next you need to go borrow a brain from someone, this time get one that works :) Now, stop being so punkish.
Randy : ‘You have to really look out for truck drivers that do not obey the law.”
I think we should line them up, make them all drink a quart of antifreeze and see if they are affected differently than other drivers….and deer :) :)))
Typical, isn’t it, Ricky Joe? Even when there’s no difference of opinion on something, Phil STILL has to argue with you about it. And I see that the two personalities of “Phil” and “Randy” are becoming less distinct and more similar.
Ricky at least I do not drive around at night with my lights off and drive into the side of a mountain.
Whatever Phil Jr., I know, you prefer to run over Bambi.
Mike says:
“Typical, isn’t it, Ricky Joe? Even when there’s no difference of opinion on something, Phil STILL has to argue with you about it. And I see that the two personalities of “Phil” and “Randy” are becoming less distinct and more similar.”
Yeppers Mike, there’s a lot of overlap there. Now I know how the delusion was born that one of them was “asked” to be here. Still reminds me of the Kibbles and Bits commercial :))
“…run over Bambi.”
Just like watching out for those Killer Trucks, Randy has to watch out for those Killer Deer, too. Reminds me of Jimmy Carter and his dangerous attack by the killer rabbit. In the water, no less.
“Now I know how the delusion was born that one of them was “asked” to be here.”
Actually, I believe that to be another of the Phil/Randy personnae, I forget the name he was using since the posts were wiped out, but you remember the ones about doing everybody’s wife? I think the moderator, when he wiped the posts, sent an email “inviting” him to rationally debate the issues, as opposed to posting obscenities. But not actually begging him to post his viewpoint.
Yea, like this comment Mike.
“amazing the amount of kinetic energy a loaded tractor trailer carries as it speeds down the roadway isn’t?”
Now I do declare, that sounds eggzatlee like something someone would say who has 0 hours logged peering over the head of a Bulldog?
The only time I ever thought about kinetic energy while driving a truck was when some 4-wheeler decided he needed to whip into the lane in front of me, and then suddenly hit his brakes. I had no choice but to hit mine, and the force was so hard, the load in the trailer slammed forward. It was loud enough that I thought it was coming through the back of the cab at me, but of course it wasn’t. After that, I said I’d never risk MY life to protect some 4-wheeler from his own stupidity. I should have just rolled over him.
Old truckers never die; they just get a new Peterbilt. (Company I worked for just had plain old Fords.)
http://www.topix.com/city/summerfield-fl/2009/02/driver-found-guilty-in-high-speed-traffic-fatality-case
I can’t believe they railroaded this guy like this!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29677408/
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=10560995
http://roadsafety.wordpress.com/2009/03/10/photos-of-10-worst-high-speed-crashes/
http://www.torontosun.com/news/torontoandgta/2009/03/07/8665621.html
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/257984/high_speed_crash/
Ouch, that’s just plain stupid.
Now THAT’S an innovative speed enforcement concept in Denmark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lntC9bHmguc
Very innovative! It’s amazing how the Europeans are gaining in technological prowness :)
And it’s not based on revenue enhancement. First rule of leadership, find out what motivates your followers and appeal to it. The strongarm method has never never been effective.
A new CEO decided to make the rounds of the company so the employees would learn about his no-nonsense approach. He saw one guy just leaning against the wall doing nothing. The CEO pointed at him and demanded, You! How much do make a week?”
Taken by surprise, the guy answered, “About $300.”
The CEO whipped out six $100 bills and handed them to the guy. “Consider this your severance pay. Now get out of here!”
THe guy looked dumbfoundedly at the money in his hand and then left. The CEO looked smugly around the room to see the response to his draconian authority. Smirking, he demanded, “Anyone know what that joker’s job was?”
Came the reply from one of the workers, “He was a pizza delivery guy waiting to get paid.”
Check out this headline:
COP MAKES ARREST IN BATHROOM AFTER SMELLING CRACK
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2009/02/24/ap/strange/main4826328.shtml
Infer what you will from the headline, but that’s damned funny!
That boy must be part police dog. SNIFF SNIFF WOOF!
There was a cop talking at the donut shop with a K9 handler, and the dog was busy licking itself. The cop mentioned conversationally, “Man, I sure wish I could do that.”
The handler replied, “Go ahead, but don’t be surprised if he bites you.”
Here’s a good one. Hic.
http://www.theagitator.com/2009/03/13/video-catches-top-chicago-dwi-cop-in-a-lie/
Who will protect us from the Protectors? Especially when they’re rewarded for doing such a good job of ‘protecting’ us even when there is no danger. The police not only often get overtime for testifying in court, increasing their annual pay by as much as 50%, but a high arrest record enhances their performance review, upon which promotions and raises are decided.
Why don’t prosecutors throw out charges based on such blatant abuse of authority? Because they, too, are subject to job performance reviews based upon convictions. Often an innocent person goes to trial, believing that common sense will prevail, and has no lawyer. Like going to a gunfight without a gun. While court is a very organized gunfight, it’s still just that, and a participant had better be experienced or have a gunfighter by his side. So innocent people are often railroaded due to inexperience in navigating the legal procedures governing courtroom procedures.
As the police (and prosecutors) are employees of the government (whether local, state, or federal), attempting to sue one or more of those employees for malfeasance brings the combined budget and experience of the entire bureaucracy against a lone plaintiff trying to correct a wrong.
Billy Bob the Beat Cop most often means well, but it’s a bad world out there and ’sometimes you just have to cut corners to make it right’. If an innocent gets railroaded, or worse, shot by Billy Bob, too bad so sad. That’s the price to pay to live in a safe society. “We had to kill everyone in the village to save them from the VC.”
Remember that Mark Furhman was a 20-year veteran of the police force who’d risen to detective. And for the most part was probably a good cop. But his mishandling of the OJ case, and inclination to plant evidence in order to get convictions, is what led to a murderer getting acquitted. His integrity in previous cases were also called into doubt. As such, he had to resign and could never again be a cop.
Doing the wrong thing for the right reasons is…. still wrong. Like the Missouri state senator who proposed the death penalty for littering this past February.
http://www.kmov.com/topstories/stories/kmov-stlouis-news-090206-state-senator-littering.26b7a49f.html
Yeah, he claims he was only joking, but he didn’t say that he was joking when he had the floor, and calling some of his own constituents rednecks, white trash, and lowlifes isn’t likely to get him re-elected, neither.
“I think killing one or two of them would be a fine first start, then the rest will fall in line because they tend to understand that,” said Sen. Engler.
(Sounds like too bad, so sad.)
Just caught a little piece of a new NBC comedy show coming out, called “Parks and Recreation”. The woman in charge decided that the playground slide was too fast, so she installed speed bumps on it. Sounds just like the proclivity of the Gerbil Twins, Phil and Randy.
That does not surprise me a bit that you would want kids sliding down a slide at 50 mph and breaking a neck. Remember you do not care if people get hurt or killed. They are going to die sometime anyway so why do any prevention.
One person called you a pettifogger.
Another called you a nitpicker.
An article cited your style of argument as pedantic.
Another might call you a quibbler.
I simply call you an idiot.
Your last statement about the slide shows your intent to argue pointlessly.
That’s what I get for giving an idiot the benefit of the doubt. All I did was feed the troll.
“Never argue with idiots. They just bring you down to their level and then overwhelm you with experience.” ~ Unknown
No Mike your last statement goes to show that you do not care one bit about anyones safety. We shoud put you in charge of OSHA and save companies millions of dollars if they are not required to have any safety devices or safety practices.
More of what speed does!
http://www.fanhouse.com/news/main/charles-lewis-dies-in-crash/379365?icid=200100397×1220449028x1201369276
If the death was due to speed, why weren’t all the others killed, too?
I have sped, and I’m still alive. And so were all the people around me when I sped. You don’t make a convincing case, Phil. The charge was vehicular manslughter, not speeding.
Mike go back to your copy and paste thing that you are able to do. Using your brain any other way is a disaster. Your fist statement of why others were not killed is because the other car may have only bumped the car that crashed if they hit each other at all. As for your statement of you speeding and you are still alive, what an idiot. Speeding only increases you chances of crashing and being killed by a lot it does not say that you will get killed every time. I bet if he was driving 30 mph he would have killed a lot more people right? vehicular manslughter usually is speeding along with possibly drinking or being on drugs.
I’ve been shot and lived Mike that doesn’t equate to being shot is safe.
Vehicular manslaughter is when someone, while operating a motor vehicle, committs a reckless or negligent act which results in the death of another. That reckless act is very often speeding.
“Mike go back to your copy and paste thing that you are able to do.”
Careful, Phil, er, I mean, Randy. Your alternate personality is showing through.
“I’ve been shot and lived Mike that doesn’t equate to being shot is safe.”
NOTHING is safe. You’re going to die some day. Maybe sooner, maybe later. And people die from the damnedest things. I’ve done things that should have killed me, while others have died from simple mistakes, or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time. You can TRY to avoid dying, but really it’s a crapshoot. As you said earlier, a gun is not dangerous by its very existance. It takes someone using it to potentially make it dangerous. And every time it’s used, it’s not necessary dangerous.
Same with speed. Speed by itself is not dangerous. If it were, then 10mph would be dangerous. To a basic degree, it is. Hit a pedestrian with a car at 10mph, you can very well kill him. So it’s not speed but WHAT speed. How much becomes assuredly dangerous? Guaranteed dangerous? And who decides? Not all roads are governed by the state. There are county roads that the speed limits are set by the county. City streets are regulated by the city.
And as for guns, I just got a letter today from the NRA, Randy, and it says that there ARE 80 million gun owners in the US.
Well Mike the NRA must be about as bad as this site with statistics. I bet there are not that many period. How many in nursing homes have guns, how many kids under 7 have guns, how many people in New York City have guns, what percentage of women have guns, how many in jail have guns well maybe they used to have guns so does that count? You come up with 80 million people. Thinking about it I do not know any women that own guns. I know there are but a low percentage .
Notice how ‘pedantic’ sounds very similar to ‘pathetic’? Probably because both of them apply so well to you, Phil, oops, I mean, Randy.
“Well Mike the NRA must be about as bad as this site with statistics.”
Well, actually, it’s not the NRA that comes up with the statistics. The NRA gets their numbers from the Dept of Justice and the BATFE, so argue it with them. Illegal possession is not ownership since ownership is a legal principle. And while the percentage of women who own guns is significantly less than men, it’s still no small percentage.
I know a good number of women who not only own guns, but are licensed to carry. My personal acquaintance with these women is no more proof than your lack of it, but I mention it as evidence that your little corner of the world is just that, a LITTLE corner. What you DON’T know would fill volumes.
Mike I would guess that all the women that you hang around with have guns. That does not surprise me. The numbers still do not come to 80 million. There are huge percentages of the population in different age groups and locations that do not own any guns.
Here is some copy and pasting why I believe there are not 80 million gun owners.
commonly cited by the gun industry and gun lobby for the continually diminishing number of gun owners and future gun buyers include the following:
* A lack of interest in guns by youth.
* The end of military conscription.
* The decreasing popularity of hunting.
* Land use issues that limit hunting.
* Environmental and zoning issues that force shooting ranges to close and
limit new range construction.
* The increase in single-parent homes headed by women.
A state trooper was having coffee at a little cafe for coffee. As he was getting ready to leave, a customer yelled out, “Go out and get ‘em! I suppose everyone’s going to get a ticket today?”
“I don’t really give out many tickets,” the cop said.
“Oh, come on,” the man teased. “You’d give your own mother a ticket.”
“No, my mother never drove a car,” said the trooper. Then a wistful grin spread over his face from a fond memory. “But I did catch her jaywalking once,” he said, “and I issued her a warning. But that was all.”
A rookie police officer was assigned to ride in a cruiser with an experienced partner. A call came over the car’s radio telling them to disperse some people who were loitering. The officers drove to the street and observed a small crowd standing on a corner.
The rookie rolled down his window and said, “Let’s get off the corner.”
No one moved, so he barked again, “Let’s get off the corner!”
Intimidated, the group of people began to leave, casting puzzled glances in his direction.
Proud of his first official act, the young policeman turned to his partner and asked, “Well, how did I do?”
“Pretty good,” replied the veteran, “especially since this is a bus stop.”
A truck driver, driving along on the freeway, sees a sign comes up that reads “low bridge ahead.” And there, right around the curve, the bridge is right ahead of him and he gets stuck under the bridge.
Cars are backed up for miles.
Finally, a police car comes up. The cop gets out of his car and walks around to the truck driver, puts his hands on his hips and says, “Got stuck, huh?”
The truck driver says, “No, I was delivering this bridge and ran out of gas.”
—————
A truck driver was pulled over by a State Trooper. The patrolman told him to get out of the truck, and noticed that the driver appeared to be putting something in his mouth as he stepped out of the cab.
Figuring that the driver was putting away his pep pills, the patrolman asked, “Did I just see you swallow something?”
“Yep, that was my birth control pill,” said the driver.
“Birth control pill?” asked the patrolman.
“Yep, when I saw your light, I knew I was screwed!” said the trucker.
Exactly. This is a new hypothesis. There is BELOW the LAW and ABOVE the LAW.
Guess what group we’re in?
Scary when a cop tells you, “I AM the law!” This isn’t recent, or one-time. I’ve personally heard it more than a few times over the last 30 years. Even had one threaten to arrest me for Insubordination Toward an Officer, as I laughed at him. That’s a violation of the UCMJ, but not civilian law. No, he didn’t arrest me, of course not. He had to tuck his tail and tell me how lucky I was that he was letting me off THIS time.
Yeppers, it means they generally are very insecure about it all, and are exhausting their coping mechanisms, so….LOOK OUT!!!!!!!
This what I am talking about. The harrassment of citizens is out of control. Being a citizen of this country only makes you a target. This is sad to say, but I feel more at ease as a US citizen crossing INTO the customs inspections in Russia, Poland, Ukraine, and even Turkey, than I do seeing the red and blue lights in my rear view mirror, because I know behind me is some little Gestapo agent that can trip me up at will for having a “dry affect”, referencing the previous video. This crap is way out of control.
This country seems to be on a steady trend towards everyone having an “I’m entitled” attitude. They all feel that the law is for others to follow but me “I’m entitled” to get away with breaking the law. If you don’t break the law you don’t see those red and blue lights in your rear view mirror. But the YOU are entitled to break the law and expect no consequences for you action.
You seem to miss the point of America, don’t you? The liberty to choose your decision (and with it, the consequences), without a socialist government inhibiting you every step of the way with picayune little laws to prevent you from making the “wrong” decision to begin with.
You’re the same as those religious fundamentalists who will save us from ourselves, whether we want it or not. So man up and volunteer for Iraq if you’re so determined to bring law and order to a society.
Not exactly Phil, the comparison is that just maybe there are more freedoms elsewhere, and even more astonishing is that those freedoms may exist in places where we have been taught that they don’t. I have a friend who married overseas, they decided to make their home in shithole Ukraine. Guess what, he loves it. He says the politics is easier to negotiate once you learn the ropes, and it is a grease the wheel society. He says personal liberties are much greater, and I have personally witnessed this myself several times. I have come to realize that Mike was correct in the earlier stage process of evolvement and decline of a republic he spoke of. They are in the more infantile stage, thus fewer laws. What hinders them is the grease the wheel society. At one time America was in the infantile stage, now we’re just choking on our own self righteousness, allowing the government to displace our individualism. You obviously are not very well traveled, but trust me, it’s a real eye opener.
What does it say Phil, when one can travel the world, have no interference(or help I might add) from law enforcement, and encounter it full press gauntlet style the minute he steps off the plane? We have been taught the opposite is true, well, taint so. Been there done that, have you?
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/125219.html
Sounds like the typical bureaucracy. Hell, ANYONE who ever gave a lift to someone in return for a little gas money or even a beer would be in violation. Any court would rule that the violation only applies to the routine livelihood or pastime to GENERATE compensate, not the occasional occurrence as a gesture of goodwill. The point is, why should a citizen HAVE to spend time and money in court to get such a ruling, just to satisfy the power lust of the bureaucratic machinery?
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/126141.html
Romero says the person who sent the plaques could face federal charges for using the U.S. Postal Service “to threaten, harass, or intimidate” the officers.
———
Yeah, well, they could probably also be under consideration for a Congressional Medal of Honor, but I wouldn’t hold much hope for either scenario. Get over yourselves, Wimpy Boys.
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/126271.html
Ooh, ANOTHER wimpy boy police chief whose poor widdle feewings have been hurt. And this one from Randy’s precious state of Wisonsin. Maybe they should change their mascot to the Wisconsin Wimps.
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/126464.html
Maybe they should just turn it all over to the state Bureau of Bureaucratic Bureaucracies. But it would just end up investigating itself.
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/126894.html
But, hey, it’s not like he was actually corrupt or anything like that. Cops are human, too, and it was all just an honest mistake.
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/128138.html
If the deputies had acted properly, there’d be no reason to throw out the charge, right? I see Public Service Announcements that tell you, if you’re not sure it’s a real cop, then wait until you’re in a populated, well-lit area before pulling over. Maybe they should show those to the cops, as well.
I am starting to believe that to be in public office, one must first take the hypocratic oath, and be the best hypocrite they can.
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/127425.html
Another one at the wrong house. A previous one where they broke windows and fired tear gas into the house. This one where they threw the guy down, handcuffed him, and dragged him around. But at least it’s not like they shot some 92 year old woman. Of course, with kids, or someone with asthma, or maybe a heart condition, well…
In Phil’s words, “Too bad, so sad.” File a lawsuit afterwards and wait for ten years. Oh, and rest assured that the cops’ wrists will be severely slapped.
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/127575.html
Police Chief Duane Smith admits he’s never even heard of anyone being arrested for a turn signal violation. A local TV station contacted other law enforcement agencies in Collin County. All of them said they’d never arrested anyone for a turn signal violation. Still, Smith says he stands by his officer.
————
Of course. He can be a leader who disciplines the idiots under him, or he can be an idiot leading idiots. You notice his choice. “In the kingdom of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.”
http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=8581861&nav=menu374_1
Another ‘cops are human, too, and it was an honest mistake’. He WAS disciplined for it, after all. Now everything is all better. And besides, that judge is obviously corrupt and overstepping his authority.
(The preceding was such acrid sarcasm that only an idiot would miss it. Got that, Phil?)
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/129446.html
Reverse the situation and you’d have the cops arresting the others for Obstruction.
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/129566.html
Oh, I feel SO much safer now that we’ve been protected from an international criminal who’s failed to properly license his dog back home.
(Guess I’d better not try going to Canada; MY dog isn’t licensed, neither.)
http://thecalifornian.com/article/20090206/NEWS01/902060302/1002
But, as the apologists claim, if you’re obeying the law, you have nothing to worry about, right? Being stopped for a broken license plate light is perfectly understandable that it would erupt into a one-sided gunfight with the cops doing all the shooting. At least in this incident, noboby died, so everything’s fine, really, just fine. Peachy keen. Honest. Really! You better believe me or I’ll arrest you for obstruction!!!
Funny! Headline from the Orlando Sentinel:
ORLANDO POLICE ASK FOR GUNS, GET MISSILE LAUNCHER
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2003843233_missile19.html
For those speed demons who are flying low, so to speak…
Oh, what a goldmine on Ebay :) !!!!
Ricky Joe, your comment about GSW’s
“…Level 1 GSW (Gunshot Wound)…”
made me remember a picture I took in Grand Prairie. It was one of those Only In Texas pictures that I enjoy. Check it out, I’m telling ya….
http://geocities.com/marc_xenos/gsw.html
Got pulled over by the Fort Worth police. He says to me, “Got any ID?”
And I replied, “…’Bout whut?”
Look out for MI-DOT trucks parked along the road or suddenly appearing behind you pacing you – it could be a Trooper driving the truck. Called ‘Operation Yellow Jacket’, each Michigan State Police District has a truck cleaned up and ready to go! These trucks have specially modified engines that can virtually catapult the truck from snow-plow speed to intercept speed in seconds. And when the engine boost kicks in, the warning lights automatically change from flashing yellow to the dreaded red and blue!
Starting March 1, 2009, Michigan will launch a 31 day speeding ticket frenzy. The state estimates that $9 million dollars will be generated in speeding tickets, with an additional $3.5 million in revenue for failure to wear a seatbelt. $1 million will go to pay state troopers overtime. There will be 47 state troopers on duty at all times patrolling the main intersections and highways with the highest rates of speeding.
They are the following:
I-75, especially from the Ohio line north to Woodhaven, and again from Auburn Hills to Flint
I-96 east and west in its entirety
I-275 north and south
I-675 north and south
I-94 east and west from Battle Creek to Jackson
I-696 east and west in its entirety
I-196 east and west
US-131 north and south
I-69 east and west from Lansing to Flint and again from Flint eastward to Port Huron.
I-69 north and south from I-94 to Lansing
M-14 east and west from I-94 to I-275
M-39 from I-94 to I-96
M-59, especially from Pontiac to Utica, and from Utica east
US-10 from Midland to Bay City
US-23 from I-96 to Flint
US-27 from Lansing to Mt. Pleasant
Quotas:
5 mph above the limit can justify a ticket and every state trooper is supposed to pull a car over and write a ticket every 10 to 20 minutes. They have issued 30 brand new unmarked Dodge Charger Police cruisers and canceled all vacation time. In addition, they are bringing in all of their part timers on full time for the month. This nonsense will conclude on April 1.
Driving Ticket fine increase in MI:
Starting on January 15th, the price of a ticket for violation of MI Law 39:3-29 (failure to show your driver’s license, registration, or proof of insurance card at the time you are stopped) went from $44.00 to $173.00. Please make sure your vehicles have the proper documents in them. If you jump in the car to run to the store and forget your wallet with your license in it and you are stopped…. Oh well… you just spent $173. And the fine for not having all three documents is $519!!!
This is such a common perception of the function of highway law enforcement that there are several urban legend websites that debunk this email. And yet, when you consider how many states now utiliize a multi-year Driver Responsibility Fee for each infraction, it’s no longer enough to pay your [expensive] fine, but continue to do so to the State DoT for a defined number of years if you want to be able to renew your license.
Sounds like a good business to be in. Just think, if a business were to do this on a contract basis, the government would still get 3 mil. Of course that negates any deductions for vehicles, salaries, and other operating expenses. This government thing, what a dynamite business to be in. Talk about forced selling! Also called economic servitude. They used to do that in Russia a lot, now you just bribe someone to get past the gauntlets. Not here, it’s a legit business!
Just another failure to tell the truth on the NMA website. If you want to find out the truth about anything do not believe the NMA website. There are too many idiots here that do not check out their stories and get their false info from the other false info web sites. Two of the persons that actually believe and like to read and redistribute false info are Mike and Ricky. And they call Phil an Idiot.
http://www.michigan.gov/msp/0,1607,7-123-1586_1710-209878–,00.html
Good Randy! I don’t know about this website, but I do trust the government. I trust government to take away from me whatever it wants when it wants. You’re forgetting Randy, almost half what Americans make goes to the government, posting here is free, and I still have the option to subscribe should I elect to do so. If you don’t think government is doing all it can to take away your rights. Read on little brother.
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/125615.html
And some other supporting links.
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/131751.html
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/125167.html
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/125219.html
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/125220.html
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/125615.html
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/126141.html
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/126271.html
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/126464.html
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/126470.html
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/126590.html
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/126735.html
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/126894.html
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/127228.html
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/127425.html
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/127575.html
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/127891.html
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/128138.html
http://www.newschannel5.com/Global/story.asp?S=8581861&nav=menu374_1
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/129213.html
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/129384.html
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/129446.html
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/129566.html
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/129946.html
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/129972.html
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/130119.html
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/130790.html
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/130899.html
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/131221.html
http://thecalifornian.com/article/20090206/NEWS01/902060302/1002
If you want to get factual information about speeding crackdowns they are out there. I know it is true because I have been in Wisconsin.
http://www.channel3000.com/editorials/18273873/detail.html
Thank you for the link Randy, but no plans for Wisconsin soon in my itinerary.
“…that there are several urban legend websites that debunk this email.”
I knew it. That’s why I did it. You just couldn’t resist, could you, my little pissant? Just waiting breathlessly to debunk an urban legend, that was already identified as a debunked urban legend.
So, Phil, I mean, Randy, how about that Miami radar incident that never existed? No response to that one, hmm?
Ok Mike you put a qualifier in small print saying it may or may not be true but your prurpose was clear to put on this site anything bad you can. Your statement came at the end of a very long statement blasting state enforcement of your right to drive recklessly. You also qualified it with “And yet, when you consider how many states now utiliize a multi-year Driver Responsibility Fee for each infraction” virtually saying that if it is not exactly true it might as well be.
Small print? It’s all the same size. Maybe it’s your reading comprehension that needs work.
“Virtually” saying something is not the same as saying something. Your “virtually” is YOU reading into it what you choose to.
The multi-year Driver Responsibility Fee is true. If you find that to be an offensive position, then take it up with the legislators, not me. That’s why the NMA exists.
http://www.reason.com/brickbat/show/125615.html
Scary, isn’t it? That someone who should know about Constitutional law would propose a law that deliberately interferes with privacy? Yeah, yeah, someone will claim that there is no Right to Privacy specified in the Constitution, but several of the Bill of Rights express specifically that, and various Supreme Court rulings have reinforced even more.
Bottom line is that there is NO law that requires newspapers to publish identity AND address of people who write into the paper. Newspapers do so only as their own policy. TV stations with similar call-in comments have no such requirement. Nor do anyone having a public conversation in a coffee shop need to publically post their name and address.
For $500 for a 1st offense, and $1,000 for eacy subsequent offense, all to be paid by web hosters, is nothing more than an attempt ot shut down, or censor the Internet. And the legalities would be staggering. On my website, would it be JUST me that’s liable, or the server that I’m paying to host my sebsite also be liable? What about the ISPs that allow such material to get through?
“In my many years I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm and three or more is a congress.” ~ John Adams
http://www.greeleytribune.com/article/20080625/NEWS/68515640
Mayor (and former police officer) subject to restraining order after throwing a 15 year old teenager to the ground for illegally operating a motorized dirt bike. Mayor claims he was only “protecting” the teenager from himself. Prosecutors refuse to file assault charges for lack of evidence, even though a judge granted a protection order mandating that the mayor maintain a 100-ft distance between himself and the teenager.
You know Mike, one of the reasons I got out of the trucking biz years ago was that it was simply too hard to be totally legal and make a significant profit. I subsequently had a very good friend in a manufacturing biz who was shut down by the IRS for being 2 days late on withholding taxes on employees. Of course, it didn’t help much that he smart-assed the IRS agent, but he was yellow-taped and the fines exceeded his original taxes. In 3 days, the government had all his accounts locked, company frozen, and 128 people lost their jobs because he couldn’t afford to pay the fines. Let me tell you, any endeavor whatsoever, our government is doing whatever it can to stop you. I was in business for 28 years in different enterprises, and let me say the one thing I have learned. If there is an empty pocket anywhere, an idea of any kind, the government is going to do whatever it can backed by all its resources to severely limit your freedoms, controlling you through laws, or compliance, or taxes and fines, and usually all three. I could really tell you some stories. This is the primary reason why I object so much to speeding citations, or traps. The average American accepts these as an irritation or inconvenience, I see them for what they really are. Control and economic servitude of the people. I am having difficulty respecting such a devil. What I said earlier about the government staying up nights to take away our freedoms, is so true, I have seen to many examples and had so much exposure to it, it makes me want to puke.
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-8242573/Mayor-feared-for-life-in.html
A synopsis from the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Wellston, Mo., police chief Robert Cossia was demoted by the city to assistant chief, and Brian Gilmore was named to replace him. A few days later, the two men ran into each other and had a “discussion” in city hall. It became heated and, Gillmore says, Cossia shoved and choked him. Both men drew their guns, but no shots were fired. Cossia has been dismissed from the department, and faces assault charges.
———-
Kinda scary when the two Top Cops of a police department throw down on each other. What’s that say for the common citizen’s safety?
http://www.greeleytribune.com/article/20080625/NEWS/68515640
Really dangerous kid here! One of the big problems with police and those in government is that they “see” all people as a violator, not as a person. “There ’s a blank 1046″, or “1248″ or whatever the lingo that is used. It’s true in the medical industry too. There’s a Level 1 GSW (Gunshot Wound) ETA to ER in 4 minutes, or put that GI Bleed up on the 10th floor, or OR has 5 CABGs today. Which makes me realize one thing, it is a business, run by and profited by the government. Nothing else.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/education/20080506-1338-bn06sdsu2.html From the San Diego Union-Tribune:
After a student at San Diego State University died from a cocaine overdose, San Diego, Calif., police launched an undercover investigation into drug sales at the school. They found so much evidence that federal investigators joined the case. After a full year of gathering evidence, teams arrested 96 people, including 75 students. Officers confiscated $100,000 worth of drugs, $60,000 in cash, plus firearms and other evidence. Among those arrested were one who was about to graduate with a master’s degree in Homeland Security, and another majoring in criminal justice. “When one of these individuals was arrested, he inquired as to whether or not his arrest and incarceration would have an effect on his becoming a federal law enforcement officer,” said an incredulous Ralph Partridge, special agent-in-charge for the Drug Enforcement Administration.
——————-
So, if there had never been an investigation, those two would have very likely gone on to become law enforcement professionals. Maybe it’s true, it takes a thief to catch a thief.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/education/20080506-1338-bn06sdsu2.html
Read the comments under the main article. It really does show how many people are starting to understand the futility of it.
Here’s a novel idea. Legalize it, and tax it. Place troops on the border, and follow the suggestion by IMA Freeman in the comments of this article.
http://www.caglepost.com/column/Pat+Buchanan/119853/Afghanistan+South.html
From the Salt Lake (UT) Tribune, October 2008:
Ryan Turner, 30, lives next to a city-owned lot in South Salt Lake, Utah. City workers had left a trap out for a pesky skunk, which caught it — on a Saturday night. Turner came out of his house and noticed the skunk suffering in the morning sun, so he moved the trap into the shade. “It’s just a matter of that’s the humane thing to do,” Turner said. “Leaving an animal to die in a metal trap over the weekend isn’t humane.” But a police officer scoffed at that explanation, and Turner has received a summons charging him with criminal trespass. He faces a $652 fine. Still, Turner says, “I would rather be in the situation I’m in now than not do anything.”
————–
In February 2009, after 90 minutes of testimony, the CITY’S lawyer recommended that the case should be dismissed, with which the municipal court agreed. The defendant stated that he found it “baffling” that the case proceeded as far as it did.
The rest of us aren’t baffled. It’s common practice for the government to hope that a defendant figures the time and effort isn’t worth it, and simply pay the fine.
From the Glencoe News, October 2008
When Lee Mitchell got a parking citation in the mail after his wife exceeded the two-hour limit in downtown Glencoe, Ill., he said he was “eager” to talk to her about it. The indicated fine: $9,501,071. “Do not send cash,” the instructions suggested.
“I guess it’s one way to increase revenues,” Mitchell said. “It might work with somebody else.” Embarrassed police officials didn’t have an explanation for the stated fine, and voided the ticket.
———-
Imagine that. Someone NOT associated with the NMA has a similar conclusion about fines.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/10/20/ST2008102001718.html
A woman was arrested, SHACKLED, and charged with criminal trespass by the Maryland STATE POLICE for allowing her dog to urinate on a neighbor’s lawn. While a citation could probably have been issued, normally it’s Animal Control that maintains jurisdiction over such disputes. The MSP was involved since the complainant was a State Police sergeant. The state’s attorney will drop the case in six more months provided there is no more conflict ON THE DEFENDANT’S PART during that time.
Big Brother is alive and well.
St. Petersburg Times, January 2009
When it comes to training, says Sheriff Richard Nugent of Brooksville, Fla., “we have done almost everything humanly possible as it relates to pursuits and controlling them.” Unfortunately, a recent pursuit went out of control. Deputies were chasing a car that refused to pull over — and 12 deputies got into the act, what at times ran at speeds over 115 mph. One deputy crashed into an innocent vehicle. One blew out a tire and had to stop. Two others lost control with one crashing through a fence, the other going airborne after hitting a dirt berm. Sheriff Nugent noted that all 13 had signed the department’s pursuit policy, which prohibited such dangerous chases — especially since they knew who the driver was and could have arrested him later. The sheriff suspended all 12 deputies, plus the sergeant who authorized the pursuit. “They got caught up in the moment,” the sergeant said. “When the adrenaline gets pumping you tend to forget, you get tunnel vision.”
———————-
They were suspended, so all the excuses are just that, worthless excuses. Too often used when cops “accidentally” discharge their weapons and kill an innocent, or get overzealous in their enforcement of the law, and an innocent is injured or killed. Where’s your sympathy THEN, Randy, for the innocents?
http://current.com/items/89232421/sheriff_drives_to_calif_only_to_get_wrong_man.htm
Kentucky cops drive all the way to California and back to extradite the wrong man. Aren’t mugshots and fingerprints supposed to avoid those kinds of ‘mistakes’?
I’m in business, myself, Ricky Joe, and you are exactly right. Anyone who goes into business without a partial degree in accounting, and in business law, PLUS an experienced advisor in local and state law, is a fool waiting to pay megabucks to the government for their lack of knowledge. Combine that with state and federal politicians who are going to ’save’ the nation from Big Bad Business by increasing regulations, benefits, and taxes, it’s no wonder jobs have wandered offshore.
In Michigan, the Single Business Tax, penalizes companies for paying their employees a decent wage. You are taxed not only according to revenue, but also according to what you pay your employees in ADDITION to revenue.
I used to enjoy driving trucks for a living, but there is no way I’d ever try to run a business in that industry. Of course, keeping 2 logbooks was common practice. You just can’t regulate behavior; people will always find a way around it.
Well, you’re right. One will end up working for the banks and the government. I have a friend who picked up his clothes manufacturing and auto parts rebuilder business and moved it to southern Mexico 12 years ago. He said it was vastly cheaper to pay freight than to pay the withholding taxes. He had over 600 employees, the business was started by his father in a rented barn in 1948. He has since taken up permanent residence in Peru. He doesn’t worry much about speeding tickets anymore :)
LOL Randy Nice job! but then we always did know they were full of Sh**!
Congratulating yourself, Phil, only makes you a majority of one. Everyone else here, except your multiple personalities, has told you that you’re full of it.
In the cartoons, Yosemite Sam used to yell, “I’ve got you ounumbered, one to one.” He was funny, but he still got his butt handed back to him. You’re the Yosemite Sam of this forum.
http://www.theagitator.com/2009/03/08/pat-buchanan-on-the-drug-war/
According to the PEW Center for the States,
2.3 million adults are incarcerated, nearly half for nothing more than simple drug possession. That’s 1 out of every 100 adults in the US.
According to the Washington Post, 7.3 million adults are in jail or prison, or on parole or probation. That’s 1 out of every 31 adults in the US.
Even probation involves penalties to the defendant including Court Costs, as well as Probation Oversight fees. In many states, if not all, judges’ pensions are based upon a percentage of collected court costs. Probation officers have a large incentive to utilize any pretext to extend the oversight period by 50%, 100%, or even 250% of the original sentence. Judges most often accede to such requests.
Prison spending has multiplied by 4x in the last 20 years. Crime has not gone down, but politicians have pandered to popular fears by adopting ‘tougher’ stances on crime, such as increased incarceration, mandatory sentencing, and criminalizing previously minor offenses.
Even with speeding tickets, ’stepped-up enforcement’ does not change human behavior, but only creates more determination to find ways around getting caught. Behavior modification cannot be legislated. Stop using the police department as some kind of social babysitter.
Whether or not I support the use of drugs, legal or illegal, is irrelevant. I have seen that the “Thou Shalt Not…!” laws of past centuries has not made any difference in the human proclivity to use them. The level of enforcement only serves to make them more expensive, but still available. So I found this article interesting:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090309/ap_en_ot/phish_fan_arrests
HAMPTON, Va. – Some Phish fans are leaving Hampton a little lighter than when they arrived for the band’s weekend reunion.
Police said Monday they confiscated about $1.2 million in illegal drugs and more than $68,000 in cash from concertgoers. Authorities also arrested 194 Phish fans during the three-night celebration of the band’s return to the stage after a nearly five-year absence.
Most of the arrests were for drug possession, use and distribution, police said.
———-
$1.2 MILLION??? That’s a LOT of drugs, and maybe an indication of the futility of such enforcement? Not to mention confiscation of $68,000? Is cash now illegal, too? Or is it a shakedown, like the Tijuana police, where your bail is whatever amount you have on you? And, of course, the incarceration system is still being well-fed by the majority of arrests for possession or use.
Mike writes((Even probation involves penalties to the defendant including Court Costs, as well as Probation Oversight fees. In many states, if not all, judges’ pensions are based upon a percentage of collected court costs. Probation officers have a large incentive to utilize any pretext to extend the oversight period by 50%, 100%, or even 250% of the original sentence. Judges most often accede to such requests.))
I don’t think this is accurate and here is 1 place that it isn’t true:
http://www.projo.com/news/content/pension_cuts__07-02-08_PMANGNK_v34.3e876b5.html
If it is the case anywhere I’d be interested in knowing where but I doubt that it is in the least bit true.
“…but I doubt that it is in the least bit true.”
Uh-huh. You’ve got quite a track record going so far. Like your position about the barefoot driving laws, or the Miami radar trial. Guess what? Nobody cares what Phil believes, since most of what Phil believes is wrong, anyway.
A guy takes his dog for a walk and decides to stop in the bar for a couple beers, so he ties his dog to a parking meter in front of the bar. After about an hour or so, a cop enters the bar. “Whose dog is tied up out front?”
The guy responds, “That’s my dog. Is there a problem officer?”
“Well she’s in heat,” says the cop.”
“Oh, she’ll be all right. It’s shady out there.”
“That’s not what I mean. Your dog needs to be bred.”
“I gave her a half of a loaf this morning. She’s fine.”
At this point the cop is getting upset. “Listen buddy! You don’t seem to understand what I’m talking about. That dog wants to mate.”
“Oh, you go right ahead, officer, I’ve always wanted a police dog.”
Two guys were walking along the road when a drunk cop hit them with his patrol car. One guy went right through the windshield and his buddy was knocked completely off the road and into a field. As another cop pulled up to investigate the incident, the drunk copped sobbed, “Oh, no, this is the end of my career!”
“Nah,” says the other cop, “this is easy to fix. This guy here, we’ll charge with Breaking and Entering, and the guy in the field, we’ll charge with Leaving the Scene of an Accident.”
A man calls his wife at work.
Man: Don’t worry, I’m fine and the damage is minimal.
Wife: Omigod, what happened?
Man: I was coming back from lunch and a bird hit my car windshield.
Wife: How much damage did it do?
Man: Minimal, however I did get a ticket.
Wife: A ticket? How did you get that?
Man: Well, I managed to reach the bird through the window and throw it behind
me. But it hit the windshield of the car behind me. It was a highway patrol car and he gave me a ticket.
Wife: What for? Damaging his windshield?
Man: No, for flipping him the bird!
Miranda: Revised
1. You have the right to remain motionless, or you may elect to run away from me.
2. Should you decide to run, I shall direct my K-9 to chase you down to the ends of the earth.
3. You have the right to have your lawyer run with you. Should he refuse, a recent Law School graduate will be appointed by the court to jog along with you.
4. If while running, you suddenly decide to end the race, beware that my K-9 may or may not understand your intentions, and may continue his pursuit of you in full stride.
5. You may stop running at any time, at your own risk.
6. Good luck. On your mark, get set….GO!!!!!
There’s a hospital where they do brain transplants. (Listening, Phil?) As the administrator was giving a tour, a visitor asked about prices for such an operation.
“It depends a lot on the brain,” replied the doctor. “For example, this PhD brain costs $10,000. And then there is this brain that belonged to a top NASA scientist and costs $15,000. Here,” the doctor paused, “we have a policeman’s brain. It goes for $50,000.”
The visitor exclaimed, “Why so much???”
The doctor replied, “Well, you see, it was never used.”
How many cops does it take to throw a man down the stairs?
None. He fell.
A deputy stopped a driver who was speeding down Main Street.
“But officer,” the man began, “I can explain.”
“Just be quiet,” snapped the deputy. “I’m going to let you cool your heels in jail until the sheriff gets back.”
“But, officer, I just wanted to say…”
“And I said to keep quiet! You’re going to jail!”
A few hours later the deputy looked in on his prisoner and said, “Lucky for you that the sheriff’s at his daughter’s wedding. He’ll be in a good mood when he gets back.”
“Don’t count on it,” answered the guy in the cell. “I’m the groom.”
A guy had to swerve to avoid a box that fell out of a truck in front of him. Seconds later, a cop pulled him over for reckless driving. The guy tried to explain to the cop that he had been avoiding the box that fell onto the road. The cop stopped traffic and recovered the box, which was found to contain large upholstery tacks.
“I’m still going to have to write you a ticket,” the cop told the driver.
Amazed, the driver asked for what???
The cop replied, “Tacks evasion.”
Heard a story a few years ago about the D.C. police department. Seems the President at the time wanted to find out which department was the best investigative unit. So he sent in the FBI, the CIA, and the D.C. police into the woods around Washington to find a bunny rabbit.
The CIA concluded that there were no such things as bunny rabbits.
The FBI set fire to the woods to eliminate the entire possibility of bunny rabbits.
The D.C. police came out of the local zoo with a bear that was badly beaten, battered, and bloody, screaming, “Alright, I confess! I AM a bunny rabbit!!!”
Mike, my man, I don’t know where you get these, but this is funny : )
Sending to family and friends. Hilarious!
I still think you’d get a kick out of this picture of Dallas’ Finest…
http://geocities.com/marc_xenos/cops.html
Mike says “The politicians are corrupt and keep speed limits low to increase revenue.”
Phil points out this article http://www.oxfordpress.com/hp/content/oh/story/news/local/2009/03/03/op030609trafficstudy.html
where the City officials did a traffic study and then raised the speed limit. how does that prove that revenue is the motivation behind how speed limits are set?
I am glad to see it. Whatever the reason, but I am willing to bet there’s more to it. The city wants the money for the project, and a higher government told them they had to raise it to get the funds. Still works for me.
Yep, they were required to do the study, and the study found that 85% of the motorists were doing closer to 45 mph. But the city still wanted to keep it at 35. They had no choice but to raise it if they wanted the road project to continue. In spite of the study, the city still argued against it.
Thank you for that little research, Phil, into local government obstruction, in spite of what the majority population wanted.
Now, in MY fashion, I’d leave my comment at that. But to adopt YOUR fashion, I’ll add the part, how does it feel to have your own “evidence” used against you for the idiot that you are? Let me know how else I can help you with your reading comprehension problems, genius boy. How’s that ole gerbil doing, by the way?
By Eleni Snider Contributing Writer Tuesday, March 03, 2009:
“A speed limit increase was recently posted on south US 27 from Patterson Avenue to the corporate limits.
After the city of Oxford conducted a traffic study to determine if the road needed a new speed limit, the results showed 45 mph is a more warranted speed.
Within the last few weeks, the Ohio Department of Transportation, District 8 in Lebanon, approved the new speed limit and it soon became enforced.
However, according to Doug Elliott, city manager, the city of Oxford requested the speed limit remain at 35 mph at the entrance to Southpointe Parkway is and where the new high school will be built, but the study showed otherwise.
The study consisted of a speed survey conducted by The city of Oxford.
“(We did) a traffic study to determine what people are actually driving on the road,” Elliott said.
“The study is taking several factors into consideration,” said Mike Dreisbach, the city of Oxford Service Director. According to Dreisbach, they took the speed at which traffic travels and the number of accidents and pedestrians in the area into consideration. Then, they weighed them using a special formula.
The speed limit was also determined by what 85 percent of the drivers in the area on south US 27 were actually driving without a police cruiser watching them.”
Ricky implies((The city wants the money for the project, and a higher government told them they had to raise it to get the funds.))
Phil responds(there is nothing in the article that says anything close to that. in fact it says just the opposite. That the city did the study and the State raised the limit to meet what the study says. I have a couple of questions though.
1) If the 85th percentile is almost never used as is the assertion of the NMA then why is the State raising this limit to what the 85th percentile speed of the study is?
2) If we follow the assertions of the NMA and that speed limits are kept low to gain revenue why didn’t they keep the speed limit low to gain revenue to build the school?
-Mike implies about the article((they were required to do the study))
-but the article tells us(”the city of Oxford conducted a traffic study to determine if the road needed a new speed limit” and “The study consisted of a speed survey conducted by The city of Oxford”)
-Phil responds with(they were required by whom? The City conducted the traffic study to determine if a new speed limit was needed on that roadway.)
-Mike continues to be wrong by implying this about the article((the study found that 85% of the motorists were doing closer to 45 mph. But the city still wanted to keep it at 35))
-but the article says this(”After the city of Oxford conducted a traffic study to determine if the road needed a new speed limit, the results showed 45 mph is a more warranted speed.” & “The speed limit was also determined by what 85 percent of the drivers in the area on south US 27 were actually driving without a police cruiser watching them.” & “However, according to Doug Elliott, city manager, the city of Oxford requested the speed limit remain at 35 mph at the entrance to Southpointe Parkway is and where the new high school will be built”)
-Phil comments(while it is correct that the that 85% of the motorists were closer to 45mph and that is where the new speed limit was set. The City DID NOT want to keep it at 35mph EXCEPT for the section where the new high school was to be built near the entrance to Southpointe Parkway.)
-Mike continues to be wrong(( into local government obstruction, in spite of what the majority population wanted))
-Phil comments(As you can see in the article it says the City requested to keep the speed limit at 35mph WHERE THE NEW HIGH SCHOOL was to be built. This does not equate to the City wanting to keep the entire roadway posted at 35mph which you imply as what the City wants. Since the City does not want what you imply them to want there is NO OBSTRUCTION BY THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT. When the new high school is finished maybe you should attend and work on that reading comprehension!)
-Mike then goes on in an attempt to brag((But to adopt YOUR fashion, I’ll add the part, how does it feel to have your own “evidence” used against you for the idiot that you are? Let me know how else I can help you with your reading comprehension problems, genius boy.))
-Phil responds(after reading what I have pointed out in the article and how you incorrectly attributed things I’d have to say you failed in your attempt to “use my evidence against me” and have only provided more evidence that you can constantly be out thought by an idiot. As such I doubt you can offer anything in the way of help for reading comprehension problems given you demonstrated inability to read and comprehend even short articles)
Phil, these 350 word rebuttals are obsolete, null, and void. Sorry, you simply cannot hold my attention that long.
At somewhere around 100 lines of text, you sure do run your mouth a lot. Sure you’re not one of those guys working on Harry Hines Boulevard?
“This study was important to complete because the city of Oxford has a major project underway and wanted to start it immediately.”
WHY was it important to complete? Who said so?
“However, the new speed limit needed to be determined first in order to get this project going.”
Again, WHY/ Who said?
“However, according to Doug Elliott, city manager, the city of Oxford requested the speed limit remain at 35 mph at the entrance to Southpointe Parkway is and where the new high school will be built, but the study showed otherwise.”
Obviously not required by the city since they requested the speed to remain at 35, but were overruled by some other entity. So the city wasn’t willing to raise the speed limit but were coerced into it by some other entity, the Ohio Department of Transportation, perhaps?
It is a shame that you guys can make assertions then when those assertions are rebutted you don’t have a long enough attention span to read the rebuttal. But then what should one expect from 8th graders?
Mike writes((Obviously not required by the city since they requested the speed to remain at 35, but were overruled by some other entity. So the city wasn’t willing to raise the speed limit but were coerced into it by some other entity, the Ohio Department of Transportation, perhaps?))
Think about the events Mikey you have no time line. According to what is written in the article. The CITY conducted the traffic survey which included a speed survey. After the study it was determined that 45mph would be a better speed limit for the roadway. Somehow the results get forwarded to the Ohio State department of transportation, Likely source of that would be the CITY of oxford petitioned for a speed limit change on that roadway. The City did however wish to keep the speed limit at 35mph along 1 portion of that roadway, where the ne high school was slated to be built(probably why the study was conducted in the 1st place) The state said no the speed limit is to be 45mph along the entire roadway. I am sure that the State DOT conceded that once the high school is built a school zone would be appropriate for a speed limit of less than 45mph. Anything else requires a manipulation of the facts as presented in the article manipulations like “So the city wasn’t willing to raise the speed limit but were coerced into it by some other entity, the Ohio Department of Transportation, perhaps?” You keep implying that the CITY wanted the entire roadway’s speed limit to remain 35mph when the CITY requested that a small portion of it remain at 35mph because of the new high school that was to be built. You keep insisting they wanted the entire roadway’s speed limit to remain at 35mph because anything less than that and there is no corruption or attempt to have a speed trap.
Phil your writing style is dry and boring, besides you nitpick everything. I haven’t the time to soak it up while you try spoon feed me your offshoot mutant points, or mud wrestle you verbally. It has been said a picture is worth a thousand words and it’s true, and works great for us 8th graders. I prefer to spend the same time researching links that support my philosophy regarding speed tickets, trap, cops, etc. rather than satisfy your need for dialogue orgy.
Even the Sphynx doesn’t have the attention span for Phil’s endless drivel. It’s Phil’s message. If he can’t figure out how to be concise and succint, then he’ll lose his audience.
Ricky Joe, ever have any teenagers? It’s a good bet this kid tries to tell his teachers how they don’t know their subjects as well as he does. In 20,000 words or more.
Given your track record I would have thought you’d of had some alledged police misconduct to prove
No not at all Phil. Actually, I am intensely fair, as a product of my “education”. I think it’s wrong for cops to shoot 92 yo women, taze a guy on the boulevard and threaten to taze his pregnant wife (that would have been really bad for the fetus) for a simple speeding ticket, break down doors into anyone’s home, and no one should be hitting a 15 year old girl, doesn’t matter who or what you are. I still go by the belief that respect is earned, not commanded. These are old fashioned beliefs and I’ll stay with them. Simple actually.
Put this into context so we can see why these things happened:
-The 92 year old woman pointed a gun at the police officers. The police officers responded with the use of deadly physical force in order to prevent, or terminate the use of deadly physical force against themselves. The police weren’t simply breaking down the door to anyone’s home they had a warrant albiet there was a mistake but you cast it in the light that the police intentionally broke down the door to this woman’s home and murdered her which is intellectually dishonest to imply.
-The guy who got tased, got tased after being warned 3 times to “turn around and put his hands behind his back” all while the officer had a taser pointed at him. His refusal to obey the instructions of the officer were why the officer was arresting him and his refusal to follow the instructions of the officer while being arrested resulted in him getting tased to get compliance. The wife was told to get back in the car and she obeyed the instruction and therefore was not tased. Why did the man act this way? because he is an NMA member who felt he shouldn’t be held accountable for his actions while driving and has been brain-washed by the Anti-Police sentiments present on the NMA website.
Here is where the guy went wrong:
1) He thought that he shouldn’t be held accountable for his actions while driving.
2) He thought he wouldn’t be held accountable for his actions while driving if he refused to sign the ticket.
3) He didn’t foresee that his refusal to sign the ticket would have consequences. those consequences being his custodial arrest.
4) When faced by the consequences of his refusal to sign the ticket, he chose to ignore the instructions of the arresting officer.
His antics are what got him tased and what almost got his wife tased the officer did nothing wrong, from what I saw in the video evidence. To imply that the officer acted inappropriately is equally as intellectually dishonest as implying the police murdered the 92 year old woman.
-As far as the 15 year old there isn’t an excuse for the behavior that I can readily see, but then do we know why she was even at the police station under arrest? Do we know what other antics she had been displaying off camera? I am sure an investigation will be done and if the cops are shown to have used excessive force they will be disciplined I am sure.
- It is Ironic seeing you point the finger at the police in the 1st two scenarios given your stance that it is OK for people to drive really fast and /or drink and drive. Given the propensity that both could end up in the loss of an innocent persons life, can we then attribute that the innocent life was lost through Murder? While we are on the subject how would someone losing control while driving too fast for conditions or while driving drunk be any different than someone making a mistake while putting down an address on a warrant application? You want the police officers who made a mistake to pay severely while you condone the acts by non police officers and feel they should go unpunished. Doesn’t seem “intensely fair” to me.
I have already put it into context, Phil. The court system did find them wrong. Obviously you are the minority here if the court system sided with them, especially since Utah settled out of court. Has nothing whatsoever to do with the publishers of this site. Your inference there is flawed, vengeful, and paranoid. The girl is only supposed to be accused, damn, what happens to her if she is guilty of anything? So Phil, you wanna be a bitch in a pack of coyotes? If you’re not alarmed by any of those links, I really don’t care to see what it would take to make you feel a shock and anger. Actually, I’d like to know. Please describe something you think has gone too far if life and limb are not reasonable limits for you. Waco? Kent State? Didn’t budge did you did I?
Phil stated: “You want the police officers who made a mistake to pay severely while you condone the acts by non police officers and feel they should go unpunished. Doesn’t seem “intensely fair” to me.”
I’ve never said that, you’re making an inaccurate inference. I said that they should act like adults. Thank you. Look for the double meaning there Phil.
Phil is just exercising his constitutionally protected right of filibuster. If he runs his mouth long enough, he’ll hope that the rest of this forum will get bored with his presence and leave. That way, he can claim some kind of personal superiority. The same effect is obtained by breaking wind, which is why Phil’s musings are often confused for flatulence.
Well Mike, you’re right. All the mentions of the NMA, all the links everyone has posted, he’s just doing his job as a troll. Doesn’t bother me none really, the more links we post the higher it climbs on Google. That just makes more people read what’s here, and that is good for the message :)) If this website happens to be the vehicle for it, I’m OK with that. If Phil is a planted troll in the name of Phil McKrakin or Randy Whatever I’m still OK. If he’s neither, then he’s the one helping us :)) Win Win situation for us.
There’s other forums on this site where Phil (and Randy) has attempted to comment, but nobody has bothered with him. So I figure this is the only place where he can get a little attention. Do a Google search for speedtraps, and there’s a dozen different ones on the first page alone. Yet I don’t see Phil in those. So I doubt that it’s a message he’s trying to impart so much as just desperate for attention. Poor kid has no real life friends to keep him company. Either that or he’s just an idiot.
MADD again.
http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=104&STORY=/www/story/09-19-2008/0004889001&EDATE
And the problem here is?
Did not say there was a problem, only posted a link, thazzit.
“We call upon these restaurants to explain to the public why they oppose laws proven to keep drunk drivers off the road or, preferably, to support these life-saving measures.”
Wow, how about that? I didn’t know that the current laws have been proven to keep drunk drivers off the road. So no need for sobriety checkpoints since it’s been proven that no drunk drivers are on the road anymore.
“Research shows that ignition interlocks reduce drunk driving offenses by an average of 64 percent.”
Research by who? The manufacturers of the ignition interlock systems? They’re costly and easy to to get around them. And if they’re SO good, why don’t they work for the other 36% of the time? Because they’re costly and easy to get around?
Hey! Everyone should get one of these! Slick!
http://www.target.com/Come-Back-Warrant-Doormat/dp/B00020O572
Item description “A little defensive, are we? Then plunk this straight-to-the-point doormat on your front stoop. Sure to make visitors laugh, the simply designed and worded mat reads: Come back with a warrant. The indoor-outdoor carpet is perfect bound with stitched edges. Olefin. Wash with outdoor hose. Made in USA. 18Lx27W.”
This product wouldn’t suit you Ricky you are WAY PAST defensive and have reached the PARANOID stage.
It’s called a joke, spelled and smelled for social deviants. Like cops :))
I would have thought a more appropriate door matt given your stance that any enforcement action violates your Civil Rights would say. “I know you don’t have a warrant and are here to violate my rights.”
The mat says the same thing :)))
I thought the mat was quite funny. And sold by Walmart no less. But Phil wouldn’t know funny if it bit him in the ass. Mostly because he has no friends or social life where he could trade jokes. He has quite the deficiency in understanding irony. Strange for someone with a direct chaneel to Alexander Hamilton and knows exactly what a dead man meant 200 years ago.
Hey Winston, make sure and put the strand of hair back.
http://www.washingtoncitypaper.com/display.php?id=36798
“It’s not their fault: ‘No one has complained to us,’ says Barnes.”
Just because nobody has ever complained, it doesn’t mean that parachutes are perfect.
Interesting reads.
http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Arizona_AG_Pot_legalization_could_prevent_0227.html
http://www.theagitator.com/2009/02/13/god-help-us-if-we-start-winning-the-drug-war-too/
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090302/us_nm/us_usa_mexico_drugs_2
http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/howard/bal-md.ho.raid01mar01,0,2457227.story?page=1
http://www.reason.com/news/show/123632.html
http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-trainum24-2008oct24,0,7918545.story
And this quote from this link:
http://www.reddit.com/r/WTF/comments/7zzgl/tearful_atlanta_cops_express_remorse_for_shooting/
“If you consider a career in crime, you should definitely choose the Bad Cop option. You’ll have good chances to get away with anything up to murder, and even in the unlikely event of conviction, your sentence will be half of the normal rate at most.”
I think I saw that they got 10years and for a manslaughter conviction 10 years is on the high side. Therefore the quote is inaccurate on it’s face and only has a place on such sites that CLAIM police misconduct.
Apparently you feel that legalizing marijuana would solve the violence from Mexico’s drug cartel. I however not only doubt that this action would help but that it is sure to escalate the violence. What about the drug cartel’s rights? I am surprised that you aren’t arguing that stopping them from committing violence against whomever they want violates thier civil rights
Hey, good point there Phil. I never thought of that. :))
Nah, the Mexican police have already arrived at that conclusion, themselves. As long as the drug cartel keeps making payoffs, the violence is allowed to continue. All in the name of public safety, of course.
To paraphrase Albert Einstein:
“Two things are infinite:
the universe and Phil’s stupidity;
and I’m not sure about the universe.”
How does it feel mike that someone you regard as an idiot and apparently has world renound stupidity knows more on these subject matters than you do? Kinda makes me wonder why you even continue to try making points here.
Phil Mckrackin says:
“How does it feel mike that someone you regard as an idiot and apparently has world renound stupidity knows more on these subject matters than you do? Kinda MAKES ME WONDER WHY you even continue to try making points here.”
Notice I capitalized the operatives.
How does it feel phil that someone you regard as an idiot and apparently has world renound stupidity knows more on these subject matters than you do? Kinda makes me wonder why you even continue to try making points here.
Nothing to say from either of you? I would have thought it impossible to stop you from commenting. Even if your comments are not factual and provide nothing to the subject of this thread. While I have you speachless let me say I will only reply now to comments that are on subject for this thread. I thank you both for trying to look as if you had at least some education.
Oh, you just been had by your own sadistic humor. Trying to dictate the rules here, well good, nobody needs ya. You finally got it.
An apparent admission that you have nothing on subject to add which wouldlikely mean you admit that the presence of Speed Traps is largely overstated and that the NMA overstates it to remain in business.
Speed traps are government intrusion into productive Americans lives. I see it everyday. The same as drug raids, tax policy, fiscal policy, etc. Actually, I consider it one of the very first abuses of power. Government policy is not always good. Many examples of that exist. I am fortunate enough to understand that the people who enforce the laws put their pants on just like I do, and I retain the right to act as something other than a subdued bitch in a pack of coyotes when the occasion arises that my behavior is deemed as lawbreaking.
Did somebody fart? I hear an asshole talking. Oh, it was just Phil running his mouth again.
Here Randy,
An example of your little cop.
http://www.komonews.com/home/video/40437097.html?video=pop&t=a
Very good Ricky. You found one example of a policeman taking control of a person that was fighting back and did not even hurt them. You have no idea what happened before the video was shown and also during the video you could not see everything. You give people that are in jail freedom to do whatever they want to policeman but if a policeman takes control of the suspect you cry invasion of freedom. Are you saying that a large percent of Policeman beat up people?
What about the thousands of drunk drivers that kill and injure thousands of people each year? It is their freedom you say to do that.
You have a priority problem.
Randy,
What do you expect this is the NMA website they condone reckless speeds and driving drunk. Anything they can do to compromise the authority of the police so they can get away with unsafe speeds and drunk driving the better they feel about themselves.
Randy says: “You give people that are in jail freedom to do whatever they want to policeman but if a policeman takes control of the suspect you cry invasion of freedom. Are you saying that a large percent of Policeman beat up people?”
I never said that, and you show me where I said that. The girl was in a interrogation room, her freedoms were already restricted, the cop attacked her, no ands, no ifs, or buts about it. What if parents did this? Much less the law? It’s against the law for parents to do this but it’s ok for the cops is what you say….thus as your impetus for the safety of the state, not any of its citizens. Reminds me of the scythe and hammer
Oh Boy here we go again! Phil states: “Randy,What do you expect this is the NMA website they condone reckless speeds and driving drunk. Anything they can do to compromise the authority of the police so they can get away with unsafe speeds and drunk driving the better they feel about themselves.”
Typical fascist manuver.
Ricky Joe you still do not have a clue. The girl was shown kicking the policeman and who knows what she did before that. You need to get all of the facts before you convict the policeman. If I had a kid that acted like that I would not care if the policeman acted as he did. It is people like you that tell others to not respect the law and it is ok to do whatever you want to do to the police. You are wrong.
Randy says:
“Ricky Joe you still do not have a clue. The girl was shown kicking the policeman and who knows what she did before that. You need to get all of the facts before you convict the policeman. If I had a kid that acted like that I would not care if the policeman acted as he did. It is people like you that tell others to not respect the law and it is ok to do whatever you want to do to the police. You are wrong.”
No, she didn’t kick him, she was quite some distance away. She removed her shoes, why I don’t know, don’t care. A cop has no right to assault a 15 year old girl, which is what he did. If that were my daughter, he’d have hell to pay. I have never touched a hair on my daughter’s head and I’ll be damned if some stupid ass cop will. What you saw was two filthy cops, the one who did the assault, and the one who did nothing and let him get away with it. Teachers cannot even give physical punishments in school and this cop beat her with his fist in the side of the head. The question has to be asked, who is the adult here? Is it too much for police to act like adults? You Randy, are one sicko. Tell me, are your swatikas tatooed?
Now let’s ask this hypocrite how many guys/women he has hauled in for domestic violence? I’d bet a pretty good chunk he beats his wife, and
his kids.
Well, ya see, Ricky Joe, THAT’S the problem I have with Phil/Randy. Both of them have expressed sentiments that something is only wrong until somebody ELSE starts it. THEN it’s okay for everyone else to do the same thing.
Phil thinks that insulting somebody else is wrong. Until somebody else starts it. THEN it’s justified on his part to insult back.
Randy thinks it’s wrong to assault someone UNTIL someone initiates the assault. Then all bets are off and it’s NOW perfectly justified to beat the everloving crap out of the person who started it.
Either something is wrong, or it’s not. That’s why the laws prohibit cops from breaking the law to enforce the law. Which is what’s scary about Justice Scalia’s decision.
Even when I’m legally armed and somebody tries to mug me, once he sees me pull my gun and he runs away, I can’t shoot him in the back because he deserved it. I teach martial arts, and while it’s legal to use enough force to remove the threat of assault, I can’t continue beating the person within an inch of his life just because he deseres it.
But then, I’m not a cop.
But, hey, you know, the ends justifies the means. If you’re innocent, you have nothing to worry about, right? Machiavellian logic.
Mike, I was dumbfounded and struck with awe and fury when I saw this one. In fact, I still have trouble digesting it. What we have is too many hot air balloons parading as cops seeking to be praised on the altar. I am sick and tired of cops ranting about how great they are and trying to sell it to the public. I have news, they get paid for it. That’s that. Just like I get paid for dealing with scum of society in the ER, it’s part of the program. If it doesn’t fit, or they don’t fit, get a job in some other employment. I am very weary of the Sensational and Hallowed Police Club.
Kinda like Phil. It’s not enough that he’s expressed his opinion for others to consider. He also has to publicly state that he is right. You know, just in case anyone misses it. Apparently it’s happened a lot if he feels it necessary to do so.
There’s two kinds of leaders. There’s the John Wayne type who waves his gun and yells, “Follow me, men!” And when you look back, you find a lot of people following you.
And then there’s the guy who points his gun at everyone and says, “Get out there and do what I tell you to.” Which is why the cops are armed with Tasers. And why those like Phil aspire to be like them.
Ricky Joe, remember earlier when Phil asked you for an example where possession is 9/10 of the law? Here’s a little anecdote:
A man boarded an airplane in New Orleans with a box of frozen crabs and asked a blonde female crewmember to take care of the box for him. She took the box and promised to put it in the crew’s refrigerator.
The man wasn’t satisfied by this assurance. He pointedly advised her that he was holding her personally responsible for the crabs staying frozen, mentioned that he was a lawyer, and proceeded to rant at her about what would happen if she let them thaw out.
Needless to say, she was annoyed by his behavior. Shortly before landing in New York, she used the intercom to announce to the entire cabin, “Would the gentleman who gave me the crabs in New Orleans, please raise your hand?”
Not one hand went up — so she took them home and ate them.
Three lessons here:
1. Some guys never learn. (Listening, Phil?)
2. Blondes aren’t as dumb as most men think.
3. Even when the law is on your side, “Possession” still trumps.
Funny :) I had to forward that one to friends and family!
That he did not claim the crabs does not mean that if he had claimed them she would have been able to keep them. Nice try though.
Phil is wondering what happened, even as he watched it.
True, Ricky. The fact that he did NOT claim then gave her legal possession. Not whether, or if, or maybe, or what could have been, or what we didn’t see, etc etc, so on and so forth, yada yada. If Phil ever tried to carry his “knowledge” of the law into a courtroom, the judge would instruct the bailiff to slap phil silly.
http://crooksandliars.com/2007/11/21/young-father-tased-for-refusing-to-sign-speeding-ticket-in-utah/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZHcHN2eX6c
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAAn1IK1GuM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlhJxpDxZ4w&feature=related
A couple of comments here:
1) The officer has the authority to custodial arrest if the individual refuses to sign. The defendants refusal to comply with the officer’s instructions constitutes resisting arrest.
2) The correct time to contest a ticket is in court not on the highway.
3) The officer was not obligated to read him his rights at that point in the arrest process. So not only does this moron have to fight a speeding ticket but also must hire an attorney to defend him in a criminal case for resisting arrest.
4) He was warned 3 times verbally to turn around and put his hands behind his back, All while a taser was pointed at him. A reasonable person could infer that refusal to follow the officer’s instructions at this point would result in him being tased.
5) he was argumentative during the entire traffic stop. Insisting that the officer take him back to see the sign. The sign you see on the tape is the second sign. The officer is not obligated to prove to you on the side of the road that you were speeding before issuing a ticket.
6) notice the wife didn’t get tased because she listened to the directions of the officer.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZHcHN2eX6c
I saw no violation of civil rights in this stop.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAAn1IK1GuM&feature=related
I saw no violation of civil rights or a false arrest in this video.
Part 3 Another example of corrupt police. Johnson County Sheriff Deputy Brock J. Wilcoxson and Deputy Pechnik arresting me for nothing.
What I saw was a stop and the officer suspected driving while impaired. He removed the suspect from the vehicle to test the person to see if he was impaired. The defendant refused the test. No the officer is obligated to arrest him or be liable for releasing him only for the defendant to crash and kill someone. If the defendant had done the test and the officer could see a demonstrated ability of this person to operate a motor vehicle everyone goes home happy. The refusal is the key to him being arrested. After arrest they search his car as is typical, that the officers can inventory it contents so they are not responsible if the defendant claims something stolen that was never there. If after he was taken to the station it was discovered that he was not impaired he could be unarrested, I believe there are provisions for this in the criminal procedure law in every state. conclusion No false arrest no violation of civil rights.
That you post these links here and calim police abuse and/or violations of civil rights only provides definitive proof you have no clue and subsequently assume every arrest is a violation of someones civil rights and/or an abuse of power. Keep trying, with all the abuse of power and/or corruption you claim is so prevalent, surely you can come up with better examples.
Here you gave 2 examples which were niether an abuse or violation of civil rights.
Don’t think so? Mmm, even the state of Utah didn’t want this one in court.
http://attorneygeneral.utah.gov/783.html
This is what federal government thought.
http://voiceofutah.blogspot.com/2007/12/at-last-some-taser-guidelines-for-utah.html
The 3 part series will go to court, particularly after the officer stated multiple times the guy was clean, and the car was clean. After these statements, there was no authorization to search the car as they did. Officers must obey too, or they rescind their credibility, and that is exactly what happened. They themselves disputed and wantoned their authority and respect, not the citizen. The citizen was totally cooperative, an excellent well executed reverse entrapment. Touche’.
A couple of comments back, Phil:
1) You’re an idiot.
2) You make idiots look like Mensa material.
3) Suppose you were Phil, and suppose you were an idiot, but I repeat myself.
4) Even idiots have to take a deep breath and exercise additional patience with you.
5) Darwinian selection has obviously failed you so you rely upon an authoritarian system to protect your helpless life.
6) Never underestimate the power of idiots in large numbers. They tend to become majorities.
Hey Mike, 5 & 6 are good material. I’d like to use them somewhere else if I may. Nothing beats class! If you don’t belive me, just ask me! :)
Absolutely. And my personal favorite:
The Best Revenge Is Living Well.
I particularly like that one when certain disingenuous persons who are still living in mommy’s basement try confronting my values. Follow the herd, get herded into the slaughter pens. Or as Nanook might have said, “If you ain’t lead dog, the scenery never changes.”
But Phil/Randy and his type will always follow the perceived safety of the herd, and desperately try to rope in the few who resist. Why? There was a movie called “Logan’s Run” that expressed it.
Refusal to comply constitutes resisting arrest? So just where did the cop think the guy was going to go??? The cop already had his driver license information, already had the guy’s license plate info. So if the guy left, how much trouble does it take to go to the guy’s house and arrest him, IF that was what MIGHT have happened?
Phil’s logic excuses the use of rubber hoses in interrogation rooms to get confessions, and beating up little teenage girls for being such “tough babes”.
I’m with you Mike. I think high speed chases are also unwarranted and a huge public risk. They are mostly a mechanism for the cop to “get high on his cowboy skills”, how often do you see one that ends with no destruction? Bet a hunski if the guy wasn’t being chased so enthusiastically he would not try so hard to get away. Years ago when I did own a trucking company, often I would have to drive the 48 myself. I made it policy to have a pair of binoculars to see the cops on those open stretches. This was before the advent of snoopers. Worked pretty well.
Kinda thinking a similar thought, myself, when you watch those Incredible Police Chases on TV? Here’s one guy running from the Law ans there’s 250 cop cars in Hot Pursuit, and not a one of them able to bring the guy down. Now why does it take SO many cops to fail at one challenge? Kinda like all of them want to be the Lone Ranger, yelling HI-YO SILVER!
An incident several years ago in Royal Oak, MI, where a car didn’t pull over for the cops in a neighbor hood. He wasn’t going particularly fast, just wasn’t pulling over. So other Royal Oak cops joined in the chase. One cop car found it necessary to cut through a park to join the chase, tearing up the field, leaving tire ruts, and endangering kids playing in the park. That’s what made the evening news, the endangerment of civilians all for a traffic citation. And the guy did stop, just not as fast as the cops wanted him to.
But, as we said in Vietnam, it was necessary to destroy the village in order to save it. You don’t want those commie VC getting their hooks into the civilians, so kill all the civilians and burn down the village to make sure.
I think it is amazing the lengths that you both will go to twist circumstances and stories to imply that ALL cops are corrupt. I can only hope that you recieve what you want (no type of enforcement of any law) and that the unintended results of such are more than you bargain for. Remember what happened in New Orleans after Katrina? Martial Law!
Really now! I should say you sound very knowledgeable Phil. I followed the forestry trucks from Hattiesburg into Pass Christian and Gulfport 2 days after Katrina. I encountered no martial law. Oh, I did have some officers try to tell me I could not unload 20 K lbs of ice on the Wal-Mart parking lot, but the crowd quickly brushed them aside. Yes, it was distributed in about 2 hours by 5 guys I gave ice pics and plastic sacks to.
If our statements imply such a thing to you, then it’s your problem with interpreting what we’ve said. Nowhere have we stated that all cops are corrupt. Just the fact that many are, and not even necessarily a majority of them, is sufficient to call the entire system into question about its integrity.
For New Orleans, the cops abandoned ship. And when martial law did finally happen, it was days later, and the first step of the law was to confiscate the guns of the homeowners so they could not defend themselves against the looters and rapists. Too bad martial law didn’t actually protect the homeowners after the weapons were confiscated.
The Algiers Point militia did a perfectly fine job of protecting themselves AND their neighborhood, all without the “benevolence” of the New Orleans police nor martial law.
And I’ve already told about Detroit where I had to chase down and block a police car just to get their attention. No type of enforcement? Already been there, in many US cities. Ricky Joe, want to give an opinion about Oak Cliff? How about Harry Hines, there’s a fine example of police enforcement.
I’d rather have no law than the bumbling, stumbling example of Keystone Kops that I see on a daily basis.
The number of cops that are corrupt or even slightly power hungry comes nowhere close to “majority”. In my comment about martial law after Katrina I made no assertion of when it happened just that it did happen. The cops abandonded ship? It is easy to armchair quarterback the actions of the police when things don’t go right or smooth but then they are out there trying to enforce the law for an ungrateful public that has been brainwashed to rebut authority.
Oh very curt statements based on totally inaccurate information and only what you read or heard in the news, which as your alter ego Randy, you contest at every op. Sorry, cannot have your cake and eat it too. You are forgetting, as I said, I was there. Helping my fellow citizens and marking bodies. I paid for the ice and other essentials and the trip out of my pocket. I also took 10 55 gallon drums of gasoline, 1000 gallons of fresh water, 300 rolls of duct tape, 200 bottles of 4:1 oil for chainsaws, 20 cases of macaroni and cheese, and 240 lbs of lentil beans. I’ll have you know, my Duramax diesel struggled some maintianing 70 mph pulling that 40 ft gooseneck, up to Hattiesburg where tress and power lines crossed the highway, and it was 8 hours from Hattiesburg to Pass Christian. So where were you Mr Armchair quarterback? Relying on police and government to get it done were’nt you? As I have said many times, you are simply a watcher and a wonderer, and these two qualities totally nullify anything you wish to contribute because you’re too involved in wondering which was first, the chicken or the egg. It behooves you even further that there are those out there who mock your fallacies as the fallacies that they are, which further cripples any action you could responsibly and reasonably take. So simply put, you are a naysayer. Just don’t get in my way, ok? T’would be a grave mistake, sir.
Armchair quarterback WHAT cops? They all disappeared. There weren’t any to enforce any laws. But let’s take your premise, that they’re enforcing the law for an ungrateful public? If the public doesn’t want the laws, perhaps it’s because the politicians who pass those laws are not listening to their constituents?
Remember Prohibition? The National 55?
Old Vietnam motto:
We are the unwilling,
Led by the unqualified
To do the unnecessary
For the ungrateful.
New police motto:
We are the unqualified
Doing the unnecessary
For the ungrateful.
“The Dallas County district attorney’s office is reviewing dozens of cases filed by six Dallas police officers after the officers assisted in an arrest that put a man behind bars for 10 months on what prosecutors say were false charges. ”
http://www.quickdfw.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/021709dnmetdpd.4035ff0.html
“The case calls into question the integrity of a police department still recovering from a 2001 scandal in which dozens of false arrests were made after fake drugs were planted on innocent people by police informants.”
MERELY a misunderstanding. It was an HONEST *snort* mistake. Hey, if you’re not breaking the law, you have nothing to worry about, right?
Exactly Mike, the law and cops have taken the view it’s every man for himself. It took me a long time for that to sink in and adjust to it. Every thing you have, everything you own , government is out there staying up nights to take it all away, including any rights you have. That’s what scares the most, is now one doesn’t have to break the law at all, one only has to be at the wrong place at the right time. You should see some of the cops I see in the ER: like swat teams, yet a very respectable ER doc gets punched out by a patient and they say it’s a “hospital problem”.
It appears to me that the bag although not in possession of Hannon in the Hotel may have been passed to Hannon as they exited and were out of video survielance(which they knew was there). One would ask why would something like that be done. Obviously Hannon knew he was being watched and set the cops watching him up. Did you notice that the officers involved were not disciplined?
Yes Ricky Joe I would be scared too with all of the false articles that you read that make things look worse than what the facts show.
Randy, I think Mike has you pegged. Anything and everything scares you, so I am not intrigued. Funny, you remind me of my dog, she saw a rabbit the other day and they both ran away from each other in fright. You may need to adjust that “fright and flight” setting just a scooch :)
Phil, none of what you said matters. Read the article again please.
Randy, you WOULD be scared? Get real! You ARE scared. Of everything in life. By your own admision. If it CAN hurt you, you’re scared of it.
Phil, if YOU were able to read, then you’d have caught the part that the investigation is underway into the activites of the 6 cops. Every case, they’ve been involved in, is now under reveiw. Of course there’s been no discipline. The investigation is not over yet.
As for the bag passing hands, the key issue in the prosecution of ANY charge: PROVE it. It’s not enough to suppose, or that it could be. It must be SHOWN with no reasonable doubt. Funny how you demand proof in a forum of opinions, but don’t expect it in a courtroom where a defendant’s future lies in the balance.
That is what makes you a troll, your own inconsistency in order to keep an argument going.
Yes Mike and Ricky you are scared of the little policeman taking away your little rights to drink and drive and your abity to drive 100 mph weaving through traffic . And Ricky you are the one that caused thousands of dollars in damage crashing into the side of a hill making Mike call you an idiot for running out of brakes . All I do is bump into a deer once in my life.
Randy says: “rights to drink and drive and your abity to drive 100 mph weaving through traffic”
Show me where either of us have said this. Verbatim quote please. I’ll take it now.
Here you go Ricky “government is out there staying up nights to take it all away, including any rights you have”
The rights that NMA stands for is being able to driink and drive and drive fast and have no police controls. What does that say about you?
You also say you do not have to do anything wrong and the policeman will get you. What does that say about how much TV you watch and too much reading articles like thenewspaper.com puts out that are all made up.
Show us where Newspaper.com has printed anything that is false. You tried that already about the VA driver repsonsiblity fees, and we showed you where you were in error. Be careful, you’re starting to sound less like “Randy” and more like “Phil”. Kinda hard to maintain two different personalities, isn’t it?
Randy, not even close.
“…you are scared of the little policeman…”
Sure scares the crap outta me!
http://geocities.com/marc_xenos/cops.html
Ricky Writes “government is out there staying up nights to take it all away, including any rights you have”
PARANOIA?
Previous statements: Ricky Writes “government is out there staying up nights to take it all away, including any rights you have”.
Phil then says this:
“PARANOIA?”
Then he also says this: ” “Randy,
What do you expect this is the NMA website they condone reckless speeds and driving drunk. Anything they can do to compromise the authority of the police so they can get away with unsafe speeds and drunk driving the better they feel about themselves.”
A bit contradictory.
Don’t worry about it Phil, while you are watching and wondering, others out there will be doing the heavy lifting.
Hmm, is Phil/Randy so PARANOID about the NMA website that they feel compelled to bring their own “wisdom” to the masses? He probably buys into the story about the little boy who stuck his finger in the dyke. At least until she slapped him.
Denver Good Samaritan pushes two old ladies out of the way of a reckless driver, gets hit by the driver, and Colorado State Trooper tickets the Samaritan for jaywalking.
http://www.suntimes.com/news/nation/1448918,w-jaywalker-ticket-denver-samaritan022509.article
It doesn’t matter what the Samaritan’s intentions were, he BROKE the law! (Along with several body parts.) Society is sure lucky to have one less SCARY jawalker out there. Maybe a warning shot between the eyes would have just as good.
Once it hit the papers, the cops backtracked and dismissed the ticket. Ya reckon this was a DUH moment for them? Yeah, gee, I wonder why people call them Armed Revenue Collectors. Or as Randy prefers, Armed Behavior Modification Enforcement Agents.
This is absurd, it is a shame we have public servants this narrow minded. It was crap like this that prompted my BIL to seek election as a county judge.
absurd? if it was a place that JayWalking was illegal why did he let the old ladies out there? Probably because he didn’t want to have to find a place to turn around in the snow to let the women off where he was supposed to. Then realizing what he had done and that it was dangerous for the women he went out to assist them accross the traffic. I believe the ticket was dismissed in the interest of justice because he was injured as a result of his actions and therefore wasn’t in need of retribution to keep him from exhibiting the behavior again. I think if ALL the facts of the case were known the officer’s issuing of the ticket would have been justified. I have seen tickets written to the mother of a 3 year old for not having the 3 year old restrained in a proper seat restraint after the youth had been killed in a car crash. The ticket was dismissed in the interest of justice. Dismissing a ticket in such a way does not negate that it was correctly issued and only points out that the retribution recieved already was greater than any that the court could impose.
“The motivation for all personal behavior is to produce a sense of “FEEL GOOD,” a sense of inner peace and well being. To expect a person to go against his desire to feel good or as good as he can feel under any momentary condition is illogical and irrational. In the observation of human behavior, one will notice every human act is a response to a personal need. This is true whether one signs a million dollar contract, scratches one’s nose, rolls over in bed, or just day dreams his life away. People will do things which seem contrary to this concept, but the bottom line is they perceive some kind of payoff which will make them feel good. And the payoff is almost always emotional. When you ask people why they want to be financially independent, they might say that they could buy things without having to worry about where the money will come from. And when they worry, they don’t FEEL GOOD. A drug addict, a compulsive eater, an alcoholic and anyone with a compulsive habit will continue with their habits because at the moment of action they believe and feel it will make them feel good. That is why breaking compulsive habits are so difficult.”
Sidney Madwed
So issuing a ticket in such incidents is just an added “I told you so” kind of justification. Sounds just like your style, Phil. Or as the rest of us phrase it, “adding insult to injury.” Must be something the rest of us overlooked in the lawbooks about the Obligation to rub salt into the wound.
This one makes me sick, this is bad.
http://www.reason.com/news/show/36694.html
“Yale University law professor (and former Breyer clerk) Akhil Reed Amar agrees, arguing that the exclusionary rule protects the guilty rather than the innocent.”
So, during a trial, it’s not about the rights of the defendant, but about the rights of the guilty, even before conviction. I guess it’s true, you’re presumed guilty until proven innocent.
That makes about as much sense as the cop who says, “If you haven’t done anything wrong, then you have nothing to be worried about.” So why do we even need rights if we’ve never done anything wrong? Only the guilty get convicted? Former US Attorney General Ed Meese made the statement that suspects are automatically guilty by definition. If they weren’t guilty, then they wouldn’t be suspects.
The enumeration of rights is not for the protection of the majority, as the majority is quite capable of protecting itself. It’s to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.
“The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities.” ~ Ayn Rand
“Democracy must be something more than two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner.” ~ James Bovard
{Mike said: “The enumeration of rights is not for the protection of the majority, as the majority is quite capable of protecting itself. It’s to protect the minority from the tyranny of the majority.”}
Very well said. What we’re talking about is the power of the government over its citizens. Ironic that the government should use the logic that by amassing resources of the many its goal is to protect the individual. What an utter lie. Our government has reached the point where it is only interested in its own perpetuality and is very willing to sacrifice the individual to further its goal….perpetuality of itself.
http://www.reason.com/news/show/34755.html
http://www.reason.com/news/show/28336.html add “or the USA?” to the last line of this article.
The Law of Unintended Consequences, a variation of Murphy’s Law that it’s an arrogant belief that humans can fully control the world around them. It was discussed earlier as part of the Complexity (or Chaos) Theory. As engineers state, every fix creates a new and unforeseen problem.
An example is the auto insurance industry. As a cost-cutting measure to keep premiums down, they mandated that collision shops utilize used or remanufactured parts, rather than new parts. The unintended consequence was that it created a more robust black market for stolen cars for parts rendered through illegal chop shops, thus increasing vehicle theft and raising insurance rates.
There is a pretty good Wikipedia entry that outlines some of the human failings in causing those unintended consequences…
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unintended_consequence
…notably Ignorance, Error, Short-term Interest, Current Values, and Fear (self-defeating prophecies).
“Fighting crime” by throwing people into prison for minor drug offenses promises that there will be lots more jail-hardened, unemployable ex-cons on the street who will have to turn to more serious crimes just to make a living.
“Ironic that the government should use the logic that by amassing resources of the many its goal is to protect the individual.”
“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship. The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been about 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.” ~ Alexander Fraser Tytler (1747–1813)
Mike wrote: “The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations has been about 200 years. These nations have progressed through this sequence: From bondage to spiritual faith; From spiritual faith to great courage; From courage to liberty; From liberty to abundance; From abundance to selfishness; From selfishness to apathy; From apathy to dependence; From dependence back into bondage.” ~ Alexander Fraser Tytler (1747–1813)”
So prophetic, looks like we’re in the apathy to dependence stage. Ouch!
Why does that make you sick Ricky-Joe? If you feel that this violates someones rights you obviously don’t know when no knock warrants are issued. Ask your judge friend I am sure he can clear up your understanding.
Quote by Mike“Yale University law professor (and former Breyer clerk) Akhil Reed Amar agrees, arguing that the exclusionary rule protects the guilty rather than the innocent.”
Mike’s response to the quote((So, during a trial, it’s not about the rights of the defendant, but about the rights of the guilty, even before conviction. I guess it’s true, you’re presumed guilty until proven innocent.))
Phil replies(Apparently your 8th grade education is hindering your ability to read and understand what this person is saying. It would appear to me that he was saying that if you had an individual charged with the a crime that said exclusionary rule would only help him if he was guilty. But you twisted it nicely to fit your “the government is against us” conspiracy theory. Oh and you must have missed this portion of the article “Today’s decision determines only that in the specific context of the knock-and-announce requirement, a violation is not sufficiently related to the later discovery of evidence to justify suppression.”
Phil, I thought you will still in jail for plagiarism. Should Wiki be notified that copyright laws have been violated? I do not think your defense you stated will hold up very well in court.
So Phil would presume that rights should only be available to those who are innocent, not the guilty, or the potentially guilty.
“That the desires of the majority of the people are often for injustice and inhumanity against the minority, is demonstrated by every page of the history of the whole world.” ~ John Adams
But for those like Phil, if it gets a guilty conviction, then the ends justifies the means. How Machiavellian.
Ricky writes((Phil, I thought you will still in jail for plagiarism. Should Wiki be notified that copyright laws have been violated? I do not think your defense you stated will hold up very well in court.))
Apperently you are equally clueless when it comes to plagiarism as you are with the law.
Mike shows us how ignorant he is.((So Phil would presume that rights should only be available to those who are innocent, not the guilty, or the potentially guilty.
“That the desires of the majority of the people are often for injustice and inhumanity against the minority, is demonstrated by every page of the history of the whole world.” ~ John Adams
But for those like Phil, if it gets a guilty conviction, then the ends justifies the means. How Machiavellian.))
Rights are for everyone equally. You like to assume and put words in my mouth mike. So let me sum up what you believe. That everyone has endless rights to to as they please even at the exspense of another’s life or liberty. You also believe they can excercise these rights totally drunk and it matters not if they kill someone with thier car. Sounds as if you have experience on the wrong side of the law probably how you got your jail house law degree. so what were you in for Pedophilia?
Phil states: “Apperently you are equally clueless when it comes to plagiarism as you are with the law.”
There sure is more than one way to see that dog will hunt. I’m tempted, better be nice. Just the hassle would be unbelievable. Like getting pulled over for a traffic stop…….but I am sure if you throw enough money at it your rights will be safe.
Ah, the thrill of victory and the agony of defeat.
http://www.reason.com/news/show/131699.html
http://www.reason.com/news/show/131390.html
http://www.reason.com/news/show/127845.html
Yep, all ya gotta do is just pass a law and all the problems magically go away. The market doesn’t go away. What you need to do is regulate it so much that the market isn’t interested. That takes away the criminal reward of the Black Market. That’s why tobacco hasn’t been outlawed, but regulated into the ground. It’s just not worth it for a lot of people to even smoke anymore.
But you can’t convince the “Just Pass A Law” crowd, who believe that it only takes more enforcement. Nearly a million people in prison for mere drug possession. Sounds like enforcement is happening plenty. But the market hasn’t gone away.
I know! We’ll make the penalites even harsher. We’ll lock up the offenders’ families in prison, too. That’ll modify their behavior.
Very good. I read the one about “Left-lane slowpokes drive you crazy?”. Seems to be very conflicting from what the rest of the articles said about speeding crackdowns. How can someone get so mad about someone in the left lane not going 90 mph when if anyone does then they get a ticket. I have not read the one from thenewspaper and may not. I know that most of the things are made up or exagerated on that site.
“Although the story turned out to be false, it was essentially true.” ~ Dan Rather
“Although the facts may be true, the story is essentially false.” ~ Randy/Phil
Here is a scary one: Did I say stormtroopers?
http://startelegrameditwriters.typepad.com/letters_to_the_startelegr/2008/06/focus-on-ticket.html
This one really hurts:
http://forums.vwvortex.com/zerothread?id=4272427
A bit confiscatory:
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/18/1818.asp
http://www.theagitator.com/2007/07/01/the-david-albo-employment-act/
Focus on Ticket responder Thomas Sullivan of Bedford sounded just like Phil, didn’t it? Not only with his opinion that driving is a privilege, but that the attorney expressing his view must have gotten his degree in Mexico.
David Albo Employment Act
Strange, isn’t it, that the very people who propose a law are the ones who benefit from driving business to themselves in order to defend against that law?
My business sent me overseas for 6 months, and provided me with a rental car during that time. My own car was parked in the garage at home. Since I wasn’t driving it, I didn’t need to pay the insurance on it. So, imagine my surprise when I got back home and wanted to renew my car insurance.
Since I’d been without insurance, I no longer qualified as a normal driver. I had to go into a High Risk pool which literally doubled my premiums. “Don’t yell at US,” my insurance company, State Farm, told me, “it’s not up to us, it’s Michigan law.”
So, as I got my paperwork in the mail about my new coverage, who’s the carrier for the High Risk pool? State Farm. Who was the lobby that pushed for the Michigan law? State Farm.
When companies tell you that their hands are tied because “it’s the law”, you can safely bet that it was the company that had a hand in MAKING the law.
Yessir, it’s all a big business. I must admit I have reached a slow burn on it all. Everywhere you turn there is some impact of government jacking with everything. It is really becoming tiresome. Often I make the trip from South of Dallas to work, see the normal 4-5 cars pulled over on a six lane interstate built for 80 with a speed limit of 60, and wonder, just wonder, what if these people just suddenly decided they did not want to bear it all any longer and quit going to work? The government will take almost half what they earn when they get there, and to do that they have to run a government gautlet. When one steps back and looks at the big picture, you have to ask, what the hell is going on here?
Ever wonder why land is called Real Estate? Many think it means “real” property as opposed to personal property which loses value or depreciates. But the Latin ‘real” means “royal” from medieval times when royalty owned the land. Peasants paid taxes to live on the land and till it for their livelihood. Today we still pay property tax to the government for the privilege to live on the land. Spend 30 years paying off your mortgage, along with with 100%-150% of the land’s value in interest. And then stop making your property tax payments. It won’t be long before you find out who REALLY owns that land. And just who is it that goes out to determine the “value” of your property for tax purposes? A real estate agent? Nope, a government tax assessor. So, the government needs more money? Raise the taxes. Afraid of not getting re-elected by raising the taxes? Raise the fines, then.
“If Thomas Jefferson thought taxation without representation was bad, he should see how it is WITH representation.” ~ Rush Limbaugh
“Taxation without representation is tyranny” ~ James Otis
“Taxation WITH representation ain’t so hot either.” ~ Gerald Barzan
“The art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to obtain the largest possible amount of feathers with the smallest possible amount of hissing.” ~ Jean Baptiste Colbert
And this one stands out clearly for the trolls out there…
“It is a clear truth that those who every day barter away other men’s liberty will soon care little for their own.” ~ James Otis
“I make the trip from South of Dallas to work…”
Now imagine traveling through the Mixmaster or the High 5 during rush hour on a Harley. Randy would positively crap his pants. And speeders would be the least of his worries.
Oh Mike, don’t think I could handle a Harley there. It would be great taking a ride to Madisonville or Abilene though :)
Absolutely incredible ride from Dallas to Amarillo.
Here are some interesting reads:
http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Insurance/InsureYourCar/speeding-youll-pay-higher-taxes.aspx
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/18/1818.asp
Wow, $3500 for a speeding ticket!
“The purpose of the civil remedial fees imposed in this section is to generate revenue,” the new law states. (Virginia Code 46.2-206.1)
But of course, it’s NOT about the money, ya know…
Gee, I thought those $1200 tickets were supposed to be SO effective in enforcing traffic safety. Guess not. Pretty soon, Virginia will have mortgage banks for people to pay their tickets. That’s the legislature. If it doesn’t work, just keep raising it and hope for the best.
Insanity – Continuing to repeatedly pursue the same course of action and expecting a different outcome each time.
Yes Ricky that proves my last statements about thenewpaper.com as making things up. If you would actually go to the link that they give you will see that speeding is not involved in any fees. They need to post a correction but I am sure they would not. It is all about not telling the truth. The only thing that you could get a fine for speeding is reckless driving. There is nothing in the link about getting anything for just speeding alone and there is a statement that says it is not about speeding. Since Mike likes to do all of his copying of statements let him prove me wrong because he can not this time.
There must be someone writing those articles that also write for this site. Made up and false statements.
Randy, I posted some links all of them simultaneosly making the same inference, that’s it. If you want to nitpick one them fine, but the inference made and the conclusions collectively drawn still stand. Nothing hard about it.
Black is black and white white, no gray there.
Ricky before you say how those links stand then go to those links particularly thenewpaper.com link and read the links they base their statements on. They are making things up.
This is the link that they reference. Where in this link do you see anything about getting a $3500 speeding ticket? There is none.
If you need to reference false articles then go for it. Pretty bad if you hunt for false statments to back up your opinion.
Randy, I have already said how those links stand, and that’s pretty much that.
Yes Ricky it is black and white how you get your information. It shows that they can print anything on the internet and post it as a fact. As long as no one follows up on it they can get by with telling their lies and making people believe what they say.
Good, we finally got that settled.
Ricky Joe, the technique is called Tickling the Trout where the Troll ignores the main premise of the post and concentrates on one picayune aspect in order to ‘prove’ all the rest of it wrong. Including nitpicking at spelling, or a wrong date.
Randy is starting to sound remarkably UN-Randy, so to speak, and more like a variation of Phil, don’t you think? And who was the guy who was censored for using the F word, but came back shortly as Phil, or Randy? Both?
Of course, had Phil/Randy bothered to actually READ the text, it’s not the fine itself that’s $3500 but the added on fees after paying the fine. But you know how it is with the Disadvantaged People; we have to help them with the reading comprehension problems.
http://www.flayme.com/troll/angler.shtml
Mike you are showing your ignorance again. It was not about the amount of fees it was about not having speeding included in the fees at all. Read it.
Yeah Mike, I am sensing a peak frustration level here :)
So Randy, I mean Phil, I mean, well, whichever one it is, they both demand PROOF, so I looked it up. The fees apply to several charges, including:
VA 46.2-861, Driving too fast for conditions (which is a subjective charge if there ever was one). But also
VA 46.2-862, Speeding 20 or more above the limit, and also Speeding in excess of 80mph, which is only 10 above the limit in 70mph zones (15 above in 65mph zones).
So, bucko, let me know how else I can help you overcome your reading comprehension problems.
From Downtown Julie Brown:
It was homecoming night at my high school
Everyone was there, it was totally cool
I was real excited, I almost wet my jeans
‘Cause my best friend Debbie was homecoming queen
She looked so pretty in pink chiffon
Riding the float with her tierra on
Holding this humongous bouquet in her hand
She looked straight out of Disneyland
You know the Cinderella ride,
I mean definitely an E ticket
The crown was cheering, everyone was stoked
I mean it was like the whole school was totally coked or something
The band was playing Evergreen
And all of a sudden somebody screamed
Look out! The homecoming queen’s got a gun!
Everybody run, the homecoming queen’s got a gun
Everybody run, the homecoming queen has got a gun
Debbie’s smiling and waving her gun
Picking off cheerleaders one by one
Oh Buffie’s pompom just flew to bits
Oh no, Mitzie’s head just did the splits
God, my best friend’s on a shooting spree
Stop it, Debbie, you’re embarrassing me
How could you do what you just did?
Are you having a really bad period?
Everybody run, the homecoming queen’s got a gun
Everybody run, the homecoming queen has got a gun
Stop Debbie, you’re making a mess
Powder burns all over your dress
An hour later the cops arrived
By then the entire glee club had died, no big loss
You wouldn’t believe what they brought to stop her
Tear gas, machine guns, even a chopper
“Throw down your gun and tierra
And come out of the float!”
Debbie didn’t listen to what the cop said
She aimed and fired and now the math teacher’s dead
Oh it’s really sad but kind of a relief
I mean, we had this big test coming up next week
Everybody run, the homecoming queen’s got a gun
Everybody run, the homecoming queen has got a gun
Debbie’s really having a blast
She’s wasting half of the class
The cops fired a warning shot that blew her off the float
I tried to scream “duck” but it stuck in my throat
She hit the ground and did a flip it was real acrobatic
But I was crying so hard I couldn’t work my instamatic
I ran down to Debbie, I had to find out
What made her do it, why’d she freak out?
I saw the bullet had got her right in the ear
I knew then the end was near
So I ran down and I said, in her good ear,
“Debbie, why’d you do it?”
She raised her head, smiled, and said
“Aaaaggghhhh, I did it for Johnny!”
Johnny? Well like who’s Johnny?
Answer me, Debbie, who’s Johnny?
Does anybody here know Johnny? Are you Johnny?
There was one guy named Johnny but he was a total geek,
He always had food in his braces.
Answer me, Debbie, who’s Johnny?
Oh God this is like that move Citizen Kane
You know where you later find out Rosebud was a sled.
But we’ll never know who Johnny was, because like she’s dead.
Everybody run, the homecoming queen’s got a gun
Everybody run, the homecoming queen has got a gun
An hour later, the cops arrived.
The cop fired a warning shot that blew her off the float.
Seems to be a recurring theme from more than just the ’speed freaks’ on the NMA’s forum.
Mike you are a big troll. Why would someone post gun poems on a driving site. Only a troll I would guess.
Well, Randy,
one, it was a song by Julie Brown, not a poem and,
two, I even added an explanation for the Disadvantaged People who can’t follow the concept. As usual, even with an explanation, you missed it. Now make sure you get to bed early so you can catch the short bus in the morning.
ok Mike Troll. I understand now. You are saying that at speed traps police are shooting people.
Here you are, trying to play with the big people, and don’t even know what a troll is, all the while you ARE one.
The troll posts messages that is intended to upset, disrupt or simply insult the group.
Since the group HERE is the NMA, and people who tend to agree with the NMA, people like you and Phil are the trolls. Why do trolls do it?
Most trolls are sad people, living their lonely lives vicariously through those they see as strong and successful.
There is more about trolls that describe the two of you (and any other alter egos that you use) remarkably well.
http://www.flayme.com/troll/
Exactly Mike that is why you are a Troll. You are a sad person, living his lonely life vicariously through those you see as strong and successful. You intended to upset, disrupt or simply INSULT other people.
A troll you are just like you said.
There are no members in this organization that would ask you to speak for them.
So speaks Randy who’s afraid of scary speeders, dangerous drunks, killer trucks, dastardly deer, fearsome fog, vicious vehicle mechanical malfunctions, James Baxter, and a host of other psychotherapy trauma. Yep, all the signs of a strong and successful person. *snicker*
Yes Mike I am afraid of all of the things you mentioned. They have all killed people this year but you would rather be on the road with drunk speeding reckelss drivers. I hope if they hit anyone it is you because you are not afraid of them and encourage them.
Then I guess you’re terrified of disease, too, since those things also kill. At least we won’t have to worry about you reproducing, since your fear of STDs will keep you safe.
But as they say, wish in one hand, spit in the other, and see which one fills up first. Because in all these years, I have yet to be hit by any of the dangerous drivers out there. Unlike you, I realize that I cannot control the actions of others; I can only control my own reactions to them.
“The basic difference between an ordinary man and a warrior is
that a warrior takes everything as a challenge, while an ordinary
man takes everything as a blessing or as a curse.” ~ Don Juan, “Tales of Power” by Carlos Castaneda
Phil, nobody here has ever said anything about some courtroom drama where a pencil was thrown at a cop to determine if he could estimate the speed. There are other, more effective ways, under evidentiary procedure, to discredit a cop’s testimony. You bring up some urban legend found on the web and try to use that as a straw man argument.
“Do you know why you can’t produce such a case? Because it doesn’t exist.”
State of Florida v. Aquilera (1979).
Otherwise known as the Miami Radar Trial. Using a police radar unit, a local television reporter showed a house clocked at 28 mph and a palm tree clocked at 86 mph. The story broke nationwide and radar was quickly shown to be less than accurate.
That’s one of several court cases challenging the reliability and accuracy of speed radar tickets. But since you’ve never heard of it, it doesn’t exist. Thus speaketh Phil. What an idiot.
So Jim Mattingly’s story DOES have some merit to it. Accurate or not, that’s for a jury to decide, but definitely plausible.
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/06/619.asp
“One ticket recipient, Brent Hanlin, believed he was innocent and called state police radar expert John Shingara to testify in his court challenge. Under oath, Shingara was forced to reveal that the Genesis model was prone to error and state officials refused to apply any of the recommended fixes for the problems. Specifically, the most common patrol vehicles, 2003 and 2004 Ford Crown Victoria police cars, could not properly power the Genesis radar allowing “alternator whine” from the car to generate false readings. When this happens, the radar unit will display a speed around 70 miles per hour, even if the gun is pointed at a stationary object. Hanlin was accused of driving 70 MPH.”
Nah, never happens. So states Phil the Idiot.
Randy writes((Bryan if that is true how can they wright any tickets? If everyone knows what you know I would think they would slow down the last few days of the month. They can not give out tickets if you are not breaking the law. Of course others here will say different because they have to say something bad about police somehow. How fast were you going?))
I disagree Randy purely on the point that ONLY the smart driver’s would slow down. The rest will get caught ticketed and come here to complain.
They wouldn’t have awaken a 92 yo lady and shot her either would they?
What would a Nazi stormtrooper or a Stalin era Soviet brown done in this situation? Do you think they would have shot her as well? If your answer is yes, then the point is clear. We live in a police state. If the answer is no, then we live in worse than a police state.
I think that given the propensity for violence associated with the NAZIs even an SS-Oberschütze would not have been held accountable for such a mistake. To compare the two is no more than fear mongering and is intellectual fraud. Even a lowly NAZI SS-Schütze that acted in such a manner, even if by mistake, would have been congratulated. In the case you cited here a mistake was made and then the error compounded by the woman pulling a gun. If the Woman hadn’t pulled the gun the error would have been discovered and appologies made. It was a series of unfortunate events there was no purposeful storming of this womans house in order to kill her which is what an SS-Hauptsturmführer, SS-Obersturmführer, SS-Untersturmführer, or SS-Sturmscharführer would likely order. Does the family have a strong case for wrongful death? absolutely, are the officers being held accountable? Yes. You need to ask yourself if an SS-Sturmbannführer kicked in the door of a house and killed a 92 year old woman inside would there be any accountability or retribution for said actions? Clearly your comparison is of apples and oranges.
When it’s YOUR mother that gets blown away, we’ll just dismiss it as a series of unfortunate mistakes.
Geez, Phil, what a freaking troll you are. Get kicked off every other site so far?
If a squad of police officers broke down the door to my mother’s house and Identified themselves as police officers and said they had a warrant. My mother knows better than to pull a gun on them. but in the event she did pull a gun and was then killed too bad so sad. I’d have a case for wrongful death but calling the cops NAZIs serves no purpose at that point. thier actions weren’t even close to resembling the actions of the NAZIs.
And that’s what makes you a troll. You keep on saying IF they identified themselves, which they did not. It was a No-Knock warrant, which means they DON’T identify themselves. Google “No-Knock Warrants” and educate yourself, Troll. But you’ll still be a troll since it would be ‘too bad, so sad’ that your mama got blown away by the stormtroopers.
Ricky- Joe writes((I will not tolerate any implication I am ignorant. That one did it for me, secondly, I will not be talked down to.))
There was no implication that you were ignorant. I said YOU ARE IGNORANT.
“All you need in this life is ignorance and confidence; then success is sure.”
Mark Twain (1835 – 1910)
“The greatest obstacle to discovery is not ignorance – it is the illusion of knowledge.”
Daniel J. Boorstin (1914 – )
“Stupid is forever, ignorance can be fixed.”
Don Wood
“Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is in an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob, and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe.”
Frederick Douglass (1817 – 1895),
As long as you accept your ignorance you can be taught and overcome it. Insistance that there can be only one opinion will serve to imprison you in it. As long as you used the NAZIs as an example didn’t the NAZIs feel there was only 1 correct opinion? that of “Der oberste Führer der Schutzstaffel. Der Führer Adolf Hitler” If you didn’t agree with his opinion you were arrested and either sent to a re-education camp or to be executed.
“Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is in an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob, and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe.”
Frederick Douglass (1817 – 1895),
I see where you drraw your insecurities from.
Mike there were 2 opium wars between Britain and China. 1n 1799 Chinese Empire reaffirmed its ban on opium imports. But to no avail, the addictive properties of the drug, the misery of the population in China, and the vast need for silver of the British Government combined to press opium trade higher. In the 1820’s opium trade averaged 900 tons per year from Bengal to China. In 1838, the death penalty was imposed for native drug traffickers; by this point the British were selling 1400 tons annually to China. In November of 1839, Chinese patrol boats tried to stop a trading vessel under Lin’s embargo of trade, and the British responded by sending warships, which arrived in June of 1840
Right out of Wikipedia.
There is no need to memorize historical facts that someone has already taken the time to write down. Obviously I had knowledge of what they were and about when they happened but wanted more detail in my response.
Yep. Commonly called plagiarism. So we’re back to identifying you for what you really are, a thief, con man, and charlatan who advocates fraud and deception by others. You still making excuses about that missing $10?
It is only plagiarism if I credit it as my own which I did not That is provided it is exactly the same material as in Wikipedia which it also is not. I am a con man because I don’t fully agree with you. Where did I advocate fraud or deception more NAZI propaganda tactics?
speaking of fraud and deception I see you supporting the NMA who deploy many schemes of fraud, misinformation and deception. Then In your support of the you utilize similar tactics of misinformation, lies, fraud and deception to hammer your opinions into those who disagree.
I’d like you to go to Wikipedia and point out where anything I wrote was the same as what was written there. In the end you can’t because I didn’t plagiarize anything. just another example of you lying to get your way.
“It is only plagiarism if I credit it as my own which I did not.”
It was posted under YOUR name. That’s plagiarism.
Personally, I think it’s pathetic that most law enforcement sets up speed traps towards the end of the month (where I’m from, anyway), just so they can meet their ticket quota for the month.
So, in other words, they basically sit around for the entire month, up until a few days before month-end, then write a flurry of tickets.
Yeppers, business as usual Bryan.
Here’s some vids. Mike, there’s the one about the body in the trunk, I had to laugh. There’s another good one about the interrogation process; absolutely hilarious.
http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/just_plain_stupid/What_Not_to_Say_To_A_Cop/#222061
http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/just_plain_stupid/What_Not_to_Say_To_A_Cop/#62277
http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/just_plain_stupid/What_Not_to_Say_To_A_Cop/#9511
http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/just_plain_stupid/What_Not_to_Say_To_A_Cop/#38561
http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/just_plain_stupid/What_Not_to_Say_To_A_Cop/#33540
http://www.stupidvideos.com/video/just_plain_stupid/What_Not_to_Say_To_A_Cop/#51384
http://www.stupidvideos.com/pictures/Fotos_chitosas_28jpg/#228345
Bryan if that is true how can they wright any tickets? If everyone knows what you know I would think they would slow down the last few days of the month. They can not give out tickets if you are not breaking the law. Of course others here will say different because they have to say something bad about police somehow.
How fast were you going?
Bryan I think you’ll find that the places that use “speed traps” are in the minority. Speed enforcement is not always a “speed trap”. Although the NMA and other posters here would like you to think that ALL speed enforcement constitutes a “speed trap” and that there are 50,000 “speed traps” in America at any 1 time. Here is how you can avoid getting ticketed. Pay attention to the posted speed limit and obey it.
I love the Taser and I love seeing uncooperative law breakers getting lit up with it.
{Phil Mckrackin says:
“I love the Taser and I love seeing uncooperative law breakers getting lit up with it.”
Didn’t I say you were a watcher and a wonderer?
The first one was a riot. But the Baltimore cop sounded more like Phil on one of his rants.
Ever get stopped by a Mississippi State Trooper? Here’s what he says:
Now lookee here, boy! This here’s mah ticket book, an’ this here’s mah pencil. Now whut I want you to do, boy, is take this here ticket book and this here pencil, an’ yew write down ‘xactly whut Ah tell ya!
Or if he decides to arrest you:
Yew’s lucky yew down Souf, boy. Down here, we gives you guilty speeders a fair trial.
Ricky Joe writes((Didn’t I say you were a watcher and a wonderer?))
This implies I have no knowledge of what a taser is or what it is used for.
Nope, it implies that you have no idea when use of a taser is appropriate. But then you’d also argue that gulags served a socially beneficial purpose in behavior coercion.
I firmly believe we are a people of good will, and have for some time been following government policies because of our inherent goodness. Here is an article that offers some hope that a shift should occur in our barbaric caveman mentality embedded so deeply in the government. Of particular note, look at the COST quoted and dismal results obtained. This very feature is why I am so vehemently opposed to the government raping its citizens, and the speed enforcement is only one small particle of that issue. I don’t believe in lalaville, but I do think we are much closer to stormtroopers tha the average citizen realizes.
http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=9932
So you view ALL speed enforcement as a problem? you have no desire to see increased limits or relaxed enforcement you just want NO enforcement of speed laws? The article you provided combined with what you wrote here only adds to the perception that you are ignorant. Did you read the title of the article? “Mexico’s Drug Violence Poses a Threat to the United States” Your solution is to stop enforcing the laws against illegal drug and drug trafficing. That will only increase the threat to law abiding citizens in Mexico and the USA.
You have it opposite, the last 100 years proved that, as did Prohibition, Amsterdam, and Costa Rica.
We will have to agree to disagree on this. It is wonderful to see that you advocate the breaking of so many laws. I wonder how long it will be before you advocate murder rationalizing that it helps with over population. It is easy to see what type of life you live simply by seeing what you advocate. In your world everyone would be allowed to use any drug they wanted and drive any speed they wanted. Would it be a better place or just seem better because the population is high all the time?
“In your world everyone would be allowed to use any drug they wanted and drive any speed they wanted.”
They already do. If speed limit enforcement was so effective, why do they have to put out grants every year to STEP UP enforcement? If it’s not about the money, why does it take the offer of money to get the cops to do what they’re already supposedly doing? If the drug laws were so effective, why are the drug cartels still in business? Not a pusher or two, or some local meth lab, but major international cartels? Because there is a market, and all the laws won’t change that. Remember a little something called Prohibition?
Phil you’ve answered your own question with your own assertions, Thank you.
{Phil wrote: “It is wonderful to see that you advocate the breaking of so many laws. I wonder how long it will be before you advocate murder rationalizing that it helps with over population. It is easy to see what type of life you live simply by seeing what you advocate.”
Also Phil wrote: “With all you criticisms about how the laws are written and enforced along with your contempt for the system that governs us I don’t see you as worthy of anything more than you are getting.”
Also again Phil wrote: “A mistake was made as humans repeatedly do. Was this womans loss of life tragic yes.”
Phil wrote: ”
Even a lowly NAZI SS-Schütze that acted in such a manner, even if by mistake, would have been congratulated.”
Finally Phil wrote: “I love the Taser and I love seeing uncooperative law breakers getting lit up with it.”
Phil then reenforced his position: ”
“You need to ask yourself if an SS-Sturmbannführer kicked in the door of a house and killed a 92 year old woman inside would there be any accountability or retribution for said actions? Clearly your comparison is of apples and oranges.”
Phil offers this, not understanding he just fit perfectly the criteria of which Frederick Douglas warned: {”“Where justice is denied, where poverty is enforced, where ignorance prevails, and where any one class is made to feel that society is in an organized conspiracy to oppress, rob, and degrade them, neither persons nor property will be safe.”
Frederick Douglass (1817 – 1895),
“I see where you drraw your insecurities from.”}
Phil is on hiatus for the moment while he ponders the [non]existent radar cases challenging their accuracy. His alternate personality has taken over in the form of Randy so that he can buy time without having to refuts himself.
Yet another example of our “True Blue”.
http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2009/02/23/johnston_sentencing.html
Poor lady, I’m am so glad our policies kept her out of those horrific opium houses, for that, I am sure she is very thankful.
Did you ever wonder what Opium Wars he was talking about? There was a couple of them, in the early 1800’s, and again in the mid-1800’s, when the British went to war with China because China had laws about the Brits smuggling opium into China from India.
The only laws about opium dens in the U.S. didn’t occur until about 1875 when San Francisco, and later more CA cities, started passing local ordinances against them, mainly because of anti-Chinese sentiment. And it was only against public sales, not private use. The CA Supreme Court ruled in 1887, “To prohibit vice is not ordinarily considered within the police power of the state. The object of the police power is to protect rights from the assaults of others, not to banish sin from the world or make men moral.” All that happened with the opium regulations was that it created a market for further refinement into morphine, and then heroin as it was harder to detect.
It wasn’t until the establishment of the Interstate Commerce Commission that the Federal Bureau of Narcotics was created, led by Henry Anslinger for almost as long as J Edgar Hoover led the FBI. Remember the laughable film, Reefer Madness? It was discovered around 1970 languishing in the lLibrary of Congress by the founder of NORML, (National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws) who bought a copy and sold it on the midnight movie circuit. It was so profitably comedic that revenues actually funded the creation of New Line Cinema that distributes many of the current new-release DVDs for rentals.
Want to change human behavior? Just pass a law, that’ll show ‘em!
Exactly Mike. After having seen what I have seen in everyday life, and having visited abroad some, made comparisons to other countries, I have concluded we have evolved lately into something not worth bragging about. We taught the whole world most of our secrets in exchange for almost nothing. We have seen steel, manufacturing, auto, rubber, textile, and aerospace evaporate. As I am employed in health care, it is the next pillar to fall. Mark my words. See what the ratio is of Americans going into medical and nursing schools versus foreigners. Now, the government is poised to “save” health care. I figure in 20 years all lucrative procedures will be performed overseas, and we’ll get caught with the cesspool end of it again. Highways? We don’t need em! We need a totally new idea on transportation, and it isn’t battery powered cars. So my beef is that we have no leadership….at all. We’re on autopilot. That the government will stand by and let it’s citizens get jerked around, especially by itself at any level, is a grave breach of trust to me.
“Want to change human behavior? Just pass a law, that’ll show ‘em!”
Exactly Mike, I do not understand why this is such a hard lesson to learn. Crap, how many times do we have to repeat it? You’re right, the opium wars were directly resultant to British imperilaism in the 17-1800’s. So, with the wealth of knowledge we’ve learned in 200 years passed, we still have the thought processes much as they did in 1700.
A mistake was made as humans repeatedly do. Was this womans loss of life tragic yes. As I remember didn’t she pull a gun? The officers are paying the price for the mistake.
Ricky-Joe you can’t imagine how seeing you rant about our government and say things like “That the government will stand by and let it’s citizens get jerked around, especially by itself at any level, is a grave breach of trust to me.” or “Want to change human behavior? Just pass a law, that’ll show ‘em!” With all you criticisms about how the laws are written and enforced along with your contempt for the system that governs us I don’t see you as worthy of anything more than you are getting.
The officers are paying the price??? I’m sure the woman’s family is so gratified to know that. The price she paid, of course, is nothing in comparison to the bad press that the stormtroopers have to live down.
What color is the sky in your world?
“Anyway, no drug, not even alcohol, causes the fundamental ills of society. If we’re looking for the source of our troubles, we shouldn’t test people for drugs; we should test them for stupidity, ignorance, greed and love of power.” ~ P. J. O’Rourke
“Feeling good about government is like looking on the bright side of any catastrophe. When you quit looking on the bright side, the catastrophe is still there.” ~ P. J. O’Rourke
“Giving money and power to government is like giving whiskey and car keys to teenage boys.” ~ P. J. O’Rourke
“Government proposes, bureaucracy disposes. And the bureaucracy must dispose of government proposals by dumping them on us.” ~ P. J. O’Rourke
{Phil Mckrackin says:
“A mistake was made as humans repeatedly do. Was this womans loss of life tragic yes. As I remember didn’t she pull a gun? The officers are paying the price for the mistake.”
And if this had happened to you? Not so tragic huh?
If it had happened to me I would have the good sense to not point a gun at an identified police officer who had his gun drawn and pointed at me. stupid is as stupid does.
Still having reading comprehension problems, huh? It was a no-knock warrant. The police crashed through the door and the woman fired at whoever was breaking in. They hadn’t identified themselves yet.
But as you said, no malfeasance on the part of the cops. They merely killed the wrong suspect. And they’ll get their wrists slapped. That’ll show ‘em.
What a freaking troll you are.
Still having reading comprehension problems, huh? It was a no-knock warrant. The police crashed through the door and the woman fired at whoever was breaking in. They hadn’t identified themselves yet.
But as you said, no malfeasance on the part of the cops. They merely killed the wrong suspect. And they’ll get their wrists slapped. That’ll show ‘em.
What a freaking troll you are.
Do you even understand what a NO KNOCK warrant is? Apparently not otherwise you’d realize how ignorant this statement of yours really is. You present this as if the cops were going to kill the correct suspect but got the wrong person and killed this 92 year old woman. The reason that the police were let off so lightly was because someone made an error(whether it was negligent or reckless is another debate) The police not knowing there was an error were fired upon while serving a No KNOCK warrant and were justified in protecting themselves from what appeared to them to be a suspect resisting arrest. A NO KNOCK warrant is called a NO KNOCK warrant because the police don’t have to knock on the door and wait until someone answers the door before serving the warrant and entering the premises. They are allowed to kick in or break down the doors to gain entry. However they still have to Identify themselves as police officers and that they are there to serve a warrant. In this case when they did that someone fired at them so they returned fire killing the person shooting at them(just happened to be a 92 year old woman). I don’t know the specifics about which officers were charged but if it wasn’t the person who made the error they were simply the fall guys. If it was the guys who made the error then they are guilty of negligent Homicide 5yrs is a common sentence for that. there are murderers that have done less time for purposefully killing someone. Like I have pointed out several times although this was tragic it was nothing more than someone’s mistake that snowballed into this womans death. If negligence can be proven the family will have a great case for wrongful death worth millions to them.
I see. So manslaughter is not really a crime since there was no intent to kill. If there was intent, then it would be murder.
“there are murderers that have done less time for purposefully killing someone.”
So it’s not a matter of WHAT somebody does, it’s WHO does it. If it’s Joe Public, it’s murder. If it’s Barney Fife, it’s an honest mistake.
Like I said, you’re a troll.
I am still waiting for your hallowed response to my question about the National Debt Phil. I’ll take an answer now. Time for you make a contribution punk.
Come on, now, Ricky Joe, be fair. Phil DOES make contributions. After all, without fertilizer, how would our yards look so nice and green? The only difference between Phil and the cows is that the cows use the other end to produce their contributions.
I have pretty much minded my manners so far Mike. I know how to be cultured :)
I will not tolerate any implication I am ignorant. That one did it for me, secondly, I will not be talked down to.
What does our National debt have to do with speed limits and speed traps?
Our national debt is somewhere between 10 and 11 trillion but I fail to see it’s relevance in this conversation. Now that I have answered you by contributing what you asked me to how about you contribute something on topic.
Ricky-Joe, If you dislike being talked down to maybe you could respect my opinion and stop putting me down because I don’t FULLY agree with your opinions. If you make an ignorant statement I am going to point it out. If you hadn’t been so abusive already I’d have used more tact in pointing it out. You and Mike chose the direction of this conversation with your petty insults and when the favor is returned you scream foul. poor wittle Wicky-Doe.
Well, you were the one who actually started it with insulting posts about wives, which got you kicked off in your earlier identity, and then you switched to people’s mothers.
But really, nobody cares about what you can ‘prove’ and you’ve made it clear that you don’t care about what we can prove, so it’s all a rant on your part. If you consider that a laudable position, then your life must really suck bigtime.
Well, think on it a little longer Phil.
Mike I didn’t publish 1 insult until after you insulted me, my opinion and my family several times. But then I’d expect a childish answer like “you insulted me first” from you.
Think on what a little longer Ricky Joe? you asked me what the national debt was and I told you what I thought it was somewhere between 10 and 11 trillion dollars.
I don’t see how the Police in that case abused the law or harassed a citizen. The officers had reasonable suspicion to stop and detain the person wearing the mask to establish his possible intent and/or his identification. If the wearer refused to remove the mask and produce valid identification the officers were obligated to detain said individual until such time that he could be identified. His refusal to remove the mask in an attempt to prevent the officers from identifying him and subsequently issuing him a vehicle infraction constitutes resisting arrest and the officers should have arrested him for that custodially and taken him back to the station to verify his identity for booking which would have resulted in him being unmasked anyway. The officers didn’t abuse the law or harass this person they just charged him with the wrong crime.
Well just be glad Obama is President and not you, maybe some rights will be preserved for future administrations to void out.
“The officers didn’t abuse the law or harass this person they just charged him with the wrong crime.”
You just keep buying into that premise. That’s how 92 year women get killed when cops raid the wrong house.
I don’t think charging this person with the wrong charge rises to the level of culpability needed to find that the police abused thier authority. They had enough reasonable suspicion to stop, detain and identify the individual just as they would if they saw someone wearing a Nixon mask enter a bank or store on a day that was not a costume wearing holiday. That the individual refused to remove his mask and allow the officers to do thier job escalated resonable suspicion to probable cause. He should have been arrested but not for a section of law about wearing a mask but for resisting arrest, obstruction of governmental administration or maybe disorderly conduct. If they had gone with one of those other charges they would have made a lawful arrest and none of the individuals personal rights would have been compromised. No abuse or harassment took place in this case look for a better example.
Read again, Phil. The rest of us have always seen YOUR problem in reading comprehension.
Mike If I missed something please point it out or shut-up. That I am discussing 1 thing and you are answering another is a problem with your reading comprehension not mine. If you notice Mike I am discussing the case about the guy in the Batman mask and you go off subject to comment about the 92 year old woman. Try to pay attention and post your replies in the correct relationship to the subject matter.
My discussion of the 92 year old woman is in the thread about the 92 year old woman. For you to place it in THIS thread about the kid in the Batman mask shows YOUR inability to maintain comprehension. The only allusion to the old woman was the comparison of cops abusing their authority.
The kid was not arrested for refusing to take off his mask. He was arrested for continuing to wear it in public after he’d been warned that it was a crime to do so. The fact that it was NOT a crime didn’t seem to matter to the cops nor the prosecutor. Lucky for the kid, it DID matter to the judge.
Try to pay attention and post YOUR replies in the correct relationship to the subject matter.
Jim Mattingly wrote((Apparently the Mayor’s son was involved in an accident on this road. The mayor wants the speed limit to be 35, but the state does not agree. Of course because of the structure of the road, Very wide more then four lanes where I was stopped, safety studies do not support his position. I was travelling in a group and accelerating up to 55. The police officer came around and conducted a manuver that would simulate panning plus closing speed and then locked it in. The speed limit is rediculasly slow for the road. The Mayor says you don’t have to worry about the speed trap if your not speeding. My position is that under the circumstances I wasn’t traveling a fast as the officer claims. He can make you look like your traveling faster then you are. Ask any well trained patrol officer if he can do this. I was trained in using radars in California while working as a military police for the Navy. We were trained to CA Post Requirements. And after looking at some of the post I can see lack of respect for anyone who disagrees with a cop or the authorities. I live in Illinois, get real. Read the paper, our local cops are just human and have been caught doing everything from rape to beating the hell out of people on camera when they think nobody is looking. My feelings are that local police are so unethical one could catch me taking a leak and I’d believe he was lying until i looked down to see for myself.))
Phil replies(If you are trained in RADAR tell me what the officer did to simulate panning and closing speed. I’d also like you to explain how he “LOCKED” a speed in. There are several reasons I don’t believe your story:
1) The use of the term closing speed is a term used in association with moving RADAR your statement indicates that you observed the officer using RADAR in moving mode to measure speed from a stationary point. How you could ever discern the officer’s incorrect operation of the RADAR unit in such a scenario is beyond me.
2) If you were actually a trained RADAR operator you’d know that there isn’t a motion that can simulate panning. Panning effects only happen with two piece RADAR units and under extremely specific circumstances which precludes an officer from simulating them with a particular “motion”. Like I said if you WERE actually a trained RADAR operator you’d know what I am talking about.
3) RADAR only reads the strongest reflected signal. Therefore If you were traveling in a group you’d have to be the vehicle producing said strongest signal. Again if you are a trained RADAR operator you’d know this and how it applies to groups of vehicles.
4) Why would an officer go through such an elaborate set of actions to take a false reading when according to case law dating back to 1968 establishes that a properly qualified officer is recognized as an expert in estimating vehicle speeds and his testimony as such an expert with corroborating evidence of a RADAR speed measurement device is sufficient to sustain a conviction. In other words an officer who has been properly trained in RADAR operation is trained also as an expert in estimating vehicle speeds within +/- 5mph that coupled with a RADAR reading is enough to convict a person of speeding. So why would an officer go through that elaborate set-up when all he had to do is visually estimate your speed to accomplish the same thing.
Given these 4 things that I have pointed out I doubt you are trained as a RADAR operator or that your story is anything more than a fictional representation of a scenario that yielded you a speeding citation. Just as icing on the cake what speed limit is the road set at and what speed were you written the citation for?
Told ya, way back, didn’t I, Jim? There’s still that little thing about a radar measurement of a tree doing 85mph in Miami-Dade County, and a judge setting a moritorium on all radar tickets as a result. But according to Phil, that CAN’T happen.
So, here you have a cop who visually estimates that a car is going, what, maybe 35 mph? But his radar reads it as doing 75? So the cop has good reason to suspect the radar is not operating properly. Now, the cop has two choices:
Ignore the radar and turn it in for calibration, or
Give out the ticket, anyway.
Since 90% of people don’t bother fighting a speeding ticket because it’s usually more expensive than the fine itself, he can safely consider that the ticket will not be contested, bringing in more money through fines, and helping his own record of citations.
Phil is just clocking the marbles rolling around in his head. Pathetic. Spazibo, Josef.
Mike if you want to insist on citing that case and making ridiculous assertions about what the judge did then supply us with the case and case law for the case in FL. iA properly operated RADAR will not clock a tree at 85mph. Although a good defense attorney that know a little about RADAR can purposefully misuse the RADAR to produce false readings. That compounded with a bad prosecutor who didn’t know how to object to the Defense attorney not being a certified operator or to his misuse of the RADAR unit could result in a dismissal of that 1 case and possibly tickets written by the same officer on that same date but I don’t see him dismissing ALL speeding tickets where RADAR was used. If it happened there would be case law on it and you’d be able to provide that case law.
As I have pointed out Mike this scenario didn’t happen as the writer submitted it and he is not a certified RADAR operator. all you speed freaks are the same you get caught speeding and claim that the cop was either looking to fill a quota, operating the RADAR improperly to render a false reading or the speed limit was under posted. This person made a concious decision to break the law and then got caught. Now he comes in here and makes up a story which only provided proof that he was lying. If this officer was as corrupt as you assert then why would he even bother with the RADAR why wouldn’t he just pull over random cars and issue tickets for speeding. I get such a kick out of the fact that there are so many people in this country that don’t take responsibility for thier own actions and blame others when they get caught performing those actions.
Aww, poor widdle Phil, it bothers him just SO much that people don’t take responsibility as His Majesty decrees it should be. The politicians, both Republican AND Democrat, should be a particular source of irritation for him’s widdle sensitivities.
Wah wah wah, Phil. Take some Midol.
I’ll take it by your reply that YOU CAN’T cite that case. Do you know why you can’t produce such a case? Because it doesn’t exist. It is a fictional case used to train police officers of why they need to be careful in operation of the RADAR and how to recognize the causes of faulty readings on the RADAR. Next you’ll be telling us about the case where the officer testified he was an expert in speed estimation and the defense attorney threw a pencil at him then asked how fast it was traveling. Hint That case doesn’t exist either and is also a fictional training lesson.